Alternator

jetjock

creepy-ass cracka
Jul 11, 2005
9,439
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Redacted per Title 18 USC Section 798
Nasty trait. You should work on that. Anyway, the OP asked a simple question. I answered it. You want I do like Dan and when asked what time it is say how to build a clock? Nah. Though I'm puzzled why the OP, if he's so knowledgeable about the subject, solicited advice in the first place. Has to be a reason. Oh wait...
 
Oct 11, 2005
3,816
16
38
Thousand Oaks, CA
Dan, we are talking maximum power here, so the field current is maxed out and not an issue. To get more current you need a thicker wire, and to maintain the voltage you need the same number of windings, ergo more volume consumed. You can't buy your way out of that one unless you plan on using silver windings. Compare the size of the Supra to the higher current MR2 alternator and you will find the MR2 is about an inch longer. Dealing with the extra heat is another issue that requires more space to solve.

This plot (a Delco but is typical for any alternator) shows how making current at low shaft rpm is a challenge. While this is a 130A alternator, you can see it is no where near that at lower shaft speeds.

Image1.jpg
 
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Insidious Surmiser

Formerly 89jdm7m
May 12, 2006
2,172
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Oceanfront
jetjock;1973059 said:
You want I do like Dan and when asked what time it is say how to build a clock?
No, that's not what I was getting at. Just pointing someone in some sort of right direction would be enough. Like telling someone to research how alternators are built and how they function.

And yes, that is a nasty trait. I've been lied to, a lot, by people I've trusted, so my trust mechanism is kind-of broken. If I can't find reason to trust, I go the other way.

The point I was getting at is with such a short answer people will either believe you, and learn nothing, or they will not believe you and possibly, eventually learn they were wrong to not do their homework, or trust you.

/thread
 
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Insidious Surmiser

Formerly 89jdm7m
May 12, 2006
2,172
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Oceanfront
super51fan;1973120 said:
I don't think he likes the answers. Looking to find some he does.

If you want it buy it.

I think the simple answer is that if your electrical demand is larger, get a larger (preferably OE alternator) while insuring your wiring is up to the task.

Either that, or what I'd prefer. Finding a way to reduce the demand.
 

IchibanEye

Supramania Contributor
Oct 23, 2013
121
1
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The Honeycomb Hideout
Dan_Gyoba;1973045 said:
Not entirely true, since it isn't shaft speed that (entirely) determines the alternator output, but the strength of the magnetic fields in the stator allowed by the regulator, or else the voltage would rise out of control if you drove at high RPM without first turning on enough electrical accessories. However to create more amperage at the same voltage means more power produced, which means more power goes into the process. Well, since the voltage regulator determines voltage, then you cannot get more amps at less volts, so at the same size, the alternator can only do what it can do. If you change the windings, you can get more amperes at the same voltage, just with the higher cost. It also means more parasitic losses at lower power, shorter lifespan of the components in the voltage regulator, diode trio and ultimately the windings in the rotor and stator themselves. Also greater strain on the spindle bearings, but that's probably the least of the increased trouble. It was worthwhile to me to run the high output (At low RPM) alternator while my car was an IASCA SQ car. I pulled that alternator and replaced it with stock when I stopped competing, and noted an immediate and measureable increase in fuel economy. I didn't put it on a dyno, but I'd bet on a corresponding increase in RWHP.

Call me crazy, but the first step should REALLY be determining if you're having a charging system problem. It's simple, really. Put a voltage gauge on the system, and unless you're dropping below about 13.5V at 2000+ RPM, (and your battery is actually known good) your alternator isn't a problem.


As to the fan... It also takes power to move air. Yes, fan design can make a difference, but it comes down to putting power to the air to move it through the radiator. That power comes mostly from forward motion of the car, but when the car isn't moving fast, it comes from the fan blades. Now we can either take some straight from the already created mechanical power (In the case of the 7M, from a belt driven by the crankshaft, the 1JZ, from a fluid pump) or we can take it from electrical power, converted into mechanical power by a motor. But that electrical power comes from somewhere, in this case, the alternator, which converts the belt-driven mechanical power into electrical power. These conversions are lossy, both ways, meaning for the SAME AMOUNT of mechanical power put into the fan blades, thus into moving air, the electrical fan MUST draw MORE power from the crankshaft, if both are to perform the same task. We cannae change the laws of physics, Cap'n.

So, either the fan takes the same, or less power from the crankshaft, but moves less air, or it takes more power to do (maybe) the same work. Given that overheating is an issue with the 7M, I'd take the better cooling system

Great points you paint a good picture.
 

IchibanEye

Supramania Contributor
Oct 23, 2013
121
1
18
The Honeycomb Hideout
jetjock;1973059 said:
Nasty trait. You should work on that. Anyway, the OP asked a simple question. I answered it. You want I do like Dan and when asked what time it is say how to build a clock? Nah. Though I'm puzzled why the OP, if he's so knowledgeable about the subject, solicited advice in the first place. Has to be a reason. Oh wait...[

Don't twist my words to much.