Air to Water Intercooler?

[IJ.]

W2A is "active" ie: It has a fan and pump and can reduce it's temp without the car moving

I'm speaking from real life experience of running both systems in the same car.

 

[Doward]

I can install an auxilary fan on an A2A as well - just saying

 

[IJ.]

Been there done that I installed 2 of the biggest fans that would fit and it does jack

NOT trying to be a cock just passing along what I've found from the data logs.

 

[Doward]

LMAO! I shoulda known Like I said, a W2A is more efficient than an A2A, just so nobody thinks I'm disagreeing in that regard - just pointing out that being a W2A does not preclude it from heatsoaking.

Ian, your big problem with that IC was running a crossflow. A downflow IC is MUCH more efficient in regards to heat rejection

Still not W2A territory, but better nonetheless!

 

[IJ.]

Mk3 sort of precludes a better configuration if you go for the maximum size that will fit in the space

As I said no cockage intended just posting my findings.

 

[sk6471]

From all of the data I've seen, an air to air intercooler is superior if its front mounted with plenty of unobstructed cool air moving at decent speed. In an apples to apples comparison an air to water intercooler could not remove as much heat at speed. In every other condition and air to water intercooler is superior. An air to water intercooler is more consistent and an air to air intercooler can remove more heat under optimal conditions. If your intercooler is top mounted, an air to water is superior. If you can't get enough direct air flow, an air to water is superior. If your intake track runs back through a hot engine bay after the intercooler, an air to water is superior. Since the MkIII grill area is pathetic and the 7m intake has a sideways facing throttle, Toyota should have used an air to water intercooler.

 

[zSP3CTERz]

looks factory?

 

[sk6471]

Yea, that came off of a 3sgte.

http://www.geocities.com/kalalahti/enginepix/bzpix/3s-gte.jpg

 

[Doward]

From all of the data I've seen, an air to air intercooler is superior if its front mounted with plenty of unobstructed cool air moving at decent speed. In an apples to apples comparison an air to water intercooler could not remove as much heat at speed.

Wrong. The heat exchanger for the W2A intercooler is often mounted where a FMIC would be anyway, so the heat rejection of the coolant is at worst, at the same level of the A2A setup.

The difference is, I can pack my coolant tank with dry ice and make sub-ambient temps. Can't do that with A2A

 

[lppro]

this is my friend jerry's water exchanger set up.

 

[sk6471]

Wrong. The heat exchanger for the W2A intercooler is often mounted where a FMIC would be anyway, so the heat rejection of the coolant is at worst, at the same level of the A2A setup.

In every real world test I've seen, a properly sized, designed, and placed air to air intercooler was more efficient at speed than it's air to water counterpart. The air to water was more efficient in every other circumstance.

The difference is, I can pack my coolant tank with dry ice and make sub-ambient temps. Can't do that with A2A

When I said apples to apples, that means no ice, NO2, dry ice, etc. Have you ever seen a true dry ice intercooler? They are far superior to air to water until the ice is gone.

 

[Doward]

In every real world test I've seen, a properly sized, designed, and placed air to air intercooler was more efficient at speed than it's air to water counterpart. The air to water was more efficient in every other circumstance.

When I said apples to apples, that means no ice, NO2, dry ice, etc. Have you ever seen a true dry ice intercooler? They are far superior to air to water until the ice is gone.

A properly sized W2A intercooler, with a properly sized heat exchanger, has better thermal transfer properties than any sized direct A2A intercooler.

Water can hold a hell of a lot more heat than air can. As long as you can reject 100%+ of the heat picked up in a pass, a W2A intercooler will outperform an equivalently sized A2A intercooler.

 

[Kristian_Wraae]

To me the advantage of running a W2A intercooler has more to do with having much less pressure drop and lag. Then one can size up the radiator and the pump instead.

I'm considering something like this:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Univ...ptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories

It is straight through design and 3" in and out.

As far as I see it, the lag of this intercooler will be significantly less than that of a comparable A2A intercooler.

 

[A. Jay]

all i can say is the worlds 2 fastest cars run them.... duh

That's because their engines are in the back

From all of the data I've seen, an air to air intercooler is superior if its front mounted with plenty of unobstructed cool air moving at decent speed. In an apples to apples comparison an air to water intercooler could not remove as much heat at speed. In every other condition and air to water intercooler is superior. An air to water intercooler is more consistent and an air to air intercooler can remove more heat under optimal conditions. If your intercooler is top mounted, an air to water is superior. If you can't get enough direct air flow, an air to water is superior. If your intake track runs back through a hot engine bay after the intercooler, an air to water is superior. Since the MkIII grill area is pathetic and the 7m intake has a sideways facing throttle, Toyota should have used an air to water intercooler.

agreed, see below

looks factory?

It could be close to being that short of a path for the 7m, clocking the compressor housing could help. Compare this to the piping of the 7m

this is my friend jerry's water exchanger set up.

That size intercooler might have a similar pressure drop to a A2A IC, just look at the ones on frozenboost.com

To me the advantage of running a W2A intercooler has more to do with having much less pressure drop and lag. Then one can size up the radiator and the pump instead.

I'm considering something like this:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Univ...ptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories

It is straight through design and 3" in and out.

As far as I see it, the lag of this intercooler will be significantly less than that of a comparable A2A intercooler.

That's my idea too, less distance for the air to travel and a smaller pressure drop would provide more power, that's why i'm planning on installing a W2A IC on my '90 as soon as I put my car back together. Having a FFIM would probably not benefit from a W2A IC though.

 

[Kristian_Wraae]

Found this intercooler on frozenboost.com

http://www.frozenboost.com/product_...d=220&osCsid=ecf12a2c8b64789e37786831a37cf7fc

They say it can flow atleast 450 cfm.

A 6 cylinder engine flowing 450 cfm produces around 695 hp (max hp).

So I assume this could be used for a conservative 450 hp.

What I don't know is if this intercooler will cool down a 450 cfm.

What do you guys think?

The point about this intercooler is that it will fit in place of the 3000 pipe and one could then clock the turbo so the turbo outlet faces up and the use a very small pipe to connect to the intercooler. That would mean very short piping with reduced pressure drop and reduced lag and very few potential boost leaks.

The larger http://www.frozenboost.com/product_...d=219&osCsid=ecf12a2c8b64789e37786831a37cf7fc

could possible be fitted with the use of N/A valve cover, which maybe need to be slightly notched and rewelded to allow the intercooler to sit embeded in the groove. That one flows 750 CFM.

 

[Canuckrz]

^ I like that idea, but I'm not sure how well it would cool and it would get hella heat soak unless you ceramic coated it.

 

[IJ.]

^ I like that idea, but I'm not sure how well it would cool and it would get hella heat soak unless you ceramic coated it.

Or mount it outside the engine bay...

 

[gaboonviper85]

^ I like that idea, but I'm not sure how well it would cool and it would get hella heat soak unless you ceramic coated it.

Ceramic coating isn't all its made out to be here on the forum...it helps but more as a protective barrier than a heat reflector...it's best purpose is to protect hot parts from rust! Heat wrap is far supperior in every possible way when it comes to thermal insulation...mounting a water to air inside an engine bay makes as much sense as a IC mounted on top of a motor!

 

[Canuckrz]

Or mount it outside the engine bay...
http://ij.supramania.com/ic5.jpg

Indeed but that wasn't the idea he was going for.

Ceramic coating isn't all its made out to be here on the forum...it helps but more as a protective barrier than a heat reflector...it's best purpose is to protect hot parts from rust! Heat wrap is far supperior in every possible way when it comes to thermal insulation...mounting a water to air inside an engine bay makes as much sense as a IC mounted on top of a motor!

Of course but it sure doesn't hurt to use it assuming keeping heat off the part is productive, and you can always do both.

 

[Kristian_Wraae]

Well the Celica 4x4 turbo uses a water intercooler mounted on top of the engine.

With a powerful pump and som insulation underneeth the intercooler it might not be that big a problem with heat from the engine. It is important that the intercooler doesn't touch the valve covers. There needs to be an air gap.
As it is now the pipes go over the top of the engine anyway. With this setup the cooling takes place just before the air enters the intake.