Afm bad? What should I do?

[7mMoneyPit]

Ok as you can tell by my name I have a 90 turbo targa 5 speed that I have dumped countless money into. Freshly rebuilt engine some lower end work, tubular manifold, medium sized turbo .60/1.15, 50mm External Wastegate, Avc-R, few other mods that I cant think of right now, I know it sounds stupid but running stock fuel and ignition, and only about 9 inches of exhaust off the back of the turbo that leaks bad, a huge 4" front mount that i havent installed yet, anyway to the point. Yesterday I noticed on my avc-r that the vacuum level @ idle was only about -360mmhg when normally would run around -500 so I search for vacuum leak like a frigging drooling water head, with a spray cleaner, well apparently your not supposed to spray near the air filter, any way I found the vacuum leak (on the chargepipe from turbo to intercooler the silicone reducer I had in between the turbo housing and the factory rubber pipe was too close to manifold so it melted a spot in it) after I fixed it I started my car and at first seemed fine then wouldnt idle or rev, after I restart the car it dies as soon as it started i pull the codes and 31 pops up, so lesson learned no more cheap ass spray leak detections, but is my afm shot or will it dry out? Or should now be a good time to upgrade? I was looking to get a map ecu 2 or something to get rid of it, should be upgraded anyway but as everyone else on here im struggling with this economy also

 

[kingofyo1]

i would suggest a lex afm if you are willing to get 550 injectors and a walboro 255, or just go with a replacement. it may be possible to get some maf cleaner for yours but i wouldnt promise that itll be fixed from spraying it.

 

[92TealSupra]

i would suggest a lex afm if you are willing to get 550 injectors and a walboro 255, or just go with a replacement. it may be possible to get some maf cleaner for yours but i wouldnt promise that itll be fixed from spraying it.

DO NOT* Spray the AFM! This is a Karmen Vortex style AFM. It's a mirroring type of Afm, that would be the worst mistake.

If you need one, I have one and you can get it from me Ill just have to buy another one later in time.

 

[7mMoneyPit]

Is there any way to fix the sensor itself? Is it residue that builds up from the spray or does it actually cause physical damage? I probably will buy a stock replacement for now as I have no other transportation right now and am broke, but shouldn't I be upgrading at this point, larger turbo, I was hitting fuel cut before at low psi as soon as the turbo started to spool maybe lower than should be because of vacuum leaks and running rich, I'd like to safely max out the stock injectors for now as I'm broke at this point in time, would like to convert to map the one piggy back I like the best is map-ecu 2 but cant afford now. Any cheaper ways to eliminate karmen, doesn't have to be permanent.
Any suggestions?

 

[rayall01]

CRC makes a cleaner specifically for MAF's, I've used it, and my MAF worked after it fully dried out. They claim it's got no residue. I eventually had some problems, which I haven't found the cause for, so I can't promise it works, but if your MAF is fubar, it costs about 6 bucks to try it. It might give you a reprieve.

 

[Bass_Man]

I made absolutely same stupid mistake to clean KVAF AFM with spray and you can see result here :3d_frown: :
http://www.usefully-info.com/7mgte/kvaf/

Finally I fix AFM with some moment glue but this was only enough to go home on self power . Gap inside in chassis where is mirror is very small and with this oily sprays there is no way to dry this place .

 

[92TealSupra]

I made absolutely same stupid mistake to clean KVAF AFM with spray and you can see result here :3d_frown: :
http://www.usefully-info.com/7mgte/kvaf/

Finally I fix AFM with some moment glue but this was only enough to go home on self power .

See there you go, someone came forward and showed you their mistake. Now learn from this and don't do it.


Thanks, Bass.




-Teal

 

[Bass_Man]

See there you go, someone came forward and showed you their mistake. Now learn from this and don't do it.

Thanks, Bass.
-Teal

When I saw and realize my AFM is broken I think for me ( and not only ) will be better to understand where is the problem and how this device is constructed .
And what I understand for this AFM-s is they are practical everlasting and reliable if there is no physical damage . The bad thing in this case is very delicately and gentle construction and no foresee way for easy changing of parts of this AFM . Because this mirror is nothing more of aluminum foil cut with desired shape .
But if you put something wet and/or some kind of garbage in good way they just will stay inside , and in bad way they will damage mirror . In both ways you are without metering system .

BTW: if someone mod want can make one Sticky Thread with title like :"result from cleaning KVAF AFM " , "why do not clean KVAF AFM " etc and to attach or give a link to this pictures .

 

[7mMoneyPit]

Ok well I've pretty much come to terms that my idiot move is gonna cost me and drive me to upgrade. So if the freon bath doesn't work then what would be the cheapest route to eliminate the karmen completely, I've been looking into a few piggy backs and not sure if I understand this right but alot of them require you to buy a bunch of other parts for it to work. The Map-Ecu 2 is what I've found to fit my expectations but it's costly, maybe map-ecu 1 or an emanage, maf-t? I don't know which would turn out to be the cheapest all together and what features I would be giving up to save a few bucks.

 

[rayall01]

http://www.fullthrottlespeed.com/itemdesc.asp?ic=050SUPRA3MAFT

http://www.fullthrottlespeed.com/it...T9FA-8665B29F91E6}~ic~02225180303~eq~~Tp~.htm

This looks to be the cheapest way to replace the stock MAF. This is how I'm gonna do it, first chance I get.

 

[grimreaper]

Edit: First post was brutally long!

The AFM (read that again guys!! AFM!>!>) needs a cleaner that will not leave a residue. They are out there but i have yet to see one at the local auto stores (at least one that is designated for AFM cleaning). MAF cleaner will NOT work... ask me how i know.

Replacing the AFM with a NEW one will cost you damn near the price of a stinger standalone... do some homework, there are cheaper alternatives...

 

[Guyana00]

Get one from the for sale section. Probably $50shipped max.

 

[jdub]

CRC makes a cleaner specifically for MAF's, I've used it, and my MAF worked after it fully dried out. They claim it's got no residue. I eventually had some problems, which I haven't found the cause for, so I can't promise it works, but if your MAF is fubar, it costs about 6 bucks to try it. It might give you a reprieve.

Using that cleaner is a sure fire way to FUBAR the AFM on a 7M turbo motor.

http://www.fullthrottlespeed.com/itemdesc.asp?ic=050SUPRA3MAFT

http://www.fullthrottlespeed.com/it...50F2DC5EVEREST34B}~ic~02225180303~eq~~Tp~.htm

This looks to be the cheapest way to replace the stock MAF. This is how I'm gonna do it, first chance I get.

It is not a MAF...It is an AFM
A Karmen Vortex AFM...I really wish you guys would get that straight. And, yes there is a difference.

The device you posted simply allows you to use a GM MAF...personally, I think it's a poor solution to a failed AFM. A better (fairly inexpensive) option is to use a MAFT Pro or Stinger stand alone and switch to a speed density set-up. Plus you get tuning options with either that just switching to the GM MAF does not give you.


MoneyPit - Unless you directly sprayed the AFM sensor inside the housing, it is not likely you damaged the AFM. There are basic tests in the TRSM for the AFM...suggest you do them. What is more likely is you dislodged the wiring connector to the AFM. Suggest you unplug it, clean the connectors, and plug it back in...pull the EFI fuse in the engine compartment box for a minute to reset the codes. Start the car and see if the code reappears. FYI - the car should start and run with the AFM unplugged...the ECU goes into fail-safe mode. If it dies with it unplugged, I'd look elsewhere for the problem.

 

[7mMoneyPit]

Yeah sorry about the long post just trying to give more info. I've already checked the harness and wiring, I had the air box and filter off trying to check the intercooler pipe for leaks and i was using a cleaner with the little red nozzle on it and pretty sure I got the afm pretty good from deflection, Was stupid mistake and I have learned from it:3d_frown: Like I've said I've been researching piggy backs but don't have the money for the expensive ones, I really want to eliminate the stock karmen but don't want to just convert to map sensor with no tunability, looking at a emanage blue but do I need to buy a bunch of accessories to get it to run? I'm looking for plug and play (no acc. to buy just to use it) cheap, and I'm guessing speed density. Any help is appreciated. Thanks.

 

[rayall01]

Using that cleaner is a sure fire way to FUBAR the AFM on a 7M turbo motor.





It is not a MAF...It is an AFM
A Karmen Vortex AFM...I really wish you guys would get that straight. And, yes there is a difference.

The device you posted simply allows you to use a GM MAF...personally, I think it's a poor solution to a failed AFM. A better (fairly inexpensive) option is to use a MAFT Pro or Stinger stand alone and switch to a speed density set-up. Plus you get tuning options with either that just switching to the GM MAF does not give you.

MoneyPit - Unless you directly sprayed the AFM sensor inside the housing, it is not likely you damaged the AFM. There are basic tests in the TRSM for the AFM...suggest you do them. What is more likely is you dislodged the wiring connector to the AFM. Suggest you unplug it, clean the connectors, and plug it back in...pull the EFI fuse in the engine compartment box for a minute to reset the codes. Start the car and see if the code reappears. FYI - the car should start and run with the AFM unplugged...the ECU goes into fail-safe mode. If it dies with it unplugged, I'd look elsewhere for the problem.

Sorry you don't like my terminology. I've seen it posted both ways on this forum, and prior to this, I've never seen anybody get called on it. As for the crc, I only said to use it if he knew the (AFM) was fubar, that it might potentially give him some life for it. And lastly, he asked for the least expensive replacement option, not the most tunable or versatile, and as far as I've been able to research, that was it.

 

[rayall01]

P.S. MAF could stand for, (in military tech speak), Meter, Air Flow. :icon_bigg
I know this because I was an aircraft mechanic in the USAF. F-4's mostly, but also F-15's, F-111's, A-10's, and the occasional German F-104 Starfighter. I think most people here would understand that people who type MAF, are talking about an AFM, and respond accordingly.

 

[jdub]

Sorry you don't like my terminology. I've seen it posted both ways on this forum, and prior to this, I've never seen anybody get called on it. As for the crc, I only said to use it if he knew the (AFM) was fubar, that it might potentially give him some life for it. And lastly, he asked for the least expensive replacement option, not the most tunable or versatile, and as far as I've been able to research, that was it.

P.S. MAF could stand for, (in military tech speak), Meter, Air Flow. :icon_bigg
I know this because I was an aircraft mechanic in the USAF. F-4's mostly, but also F-15's, F-111's, A-10's, and the occasional German F-104 Starfighter. I think most people here would understand that people who type MAF, are talking about an AFM, and respond accordingly.

Nice try...I'm in the USAFR. F-16 pilot to be exact that moved up the food chain just a bit. You picked the wrong guy to pull the military card on.

There are numerous times that has been corrected in this and other sections of SM...you've just chose to ignore it. Toyota makes a very exact distinction between a MAF and an AFM...it's in the manual and the tech specs. So if you are a military technician and you were speaking to me as OIC, you would use the correct terminology or you would be having a small problem with the 1st shirt

In fact, of all people, you should know better.

The cleaning advice you gave would only make it worse and if the AFM was not FUBAR (wiring problem), it would be after using that cleaner. Keep in mind you posted in the Tech Section, poor or inaccurate info will be shot down pretty darn fast. Including options that will not provide a good long-term solution.

 

[7mMoneyPit]

Ok, afm is shot, and as far as I can tell I'm overdue for upgrade, I don't want to buy stock afm electronics when I could save a few more bucks and eliminate it with a piggy back. However I'm not trying to dump 1k into a ems, I have a few friends with emanage that I could buy cheap but don't know if it's worth it, what would I need to use it on my 7m? Also other options include Map-Ecu but gonna cost me at least another $100, but if it's plug and play compared to the emanage's other needed parts cost then I'd probably go that route. Any input on what I'm gonna need, I've researched but not really clear on what's needed for install. Thanks

 

[jdub]

You would be able to get a MAFT Pro and what's needed for speed density in the $500-600 range. And, all that's needed for boost control is a solenoid air valve on top of what's needed for speed density.

 

[7mMoneyPit]

That's about what I figured and what other parts would I be needing with Maft-Pro? Let's say I could get an Emanage Blue for about $200, next I would need a gm map sensor? Would that be cheaper or am I overlooking a part or two that's needed? As of right now I'm unemployed and $500-$600 is a little out of my price range right now.:3d_frown: Must be my luck, get supra running after 3 years and get laid off:icon_evil
BTW already have AVC-R so no need for boost control. Just wanna ditch stock Afm