? about Rods and Pistons

[jdub]

LOL...the only verdict that's in is if you choose to use the stock rods on a high HP motor is the prep required.
As usual, the devil is in the details

If you choose to go cheap and use the stock rods on your expensive, built, 600 HP motor, you can:

- IF you have the rods thoroughly inspected for structural integrity
- IF you have the rods re-sized
- IF you use ARP bolts
- And realize you are near the design limits for the rods...there will be little pad. The motor will not tolerate significant tuning errors

If you use new billet rods:
- They are already sized
- They come with ARP quality bolts
- They are factory inspected
- Will give you a 30% + margin concerning strength

The bottom line is you can't take your stock rods and just slap them in a motor that you're going to push in the 550-600 HP + range.
Prep is critical

 

[boostadikt]

again your setting the limit to 550-600 range..... we have already said that stock rods have gone above that.

If you choose to go cheap and use the stock rods on your expensive, built, 600 HP motor, you can

that is your own opinion, and while you are trying to force your opinion on everyone else, i am stating the facts...... sure eagle rods are better than recondishioned stock rods, but thats the choice of the owner.... there are a lot of people that aren't "cheap" in anyway and use stock rods.

in my case... i would definately not call myself cheap but my shot peened, recondishioned rods cost me 200$ instead of 500$ for eagles, and im running weisco pistons on them and im currently making high 500's, and for 3 hours strait last night i beat the living hell out of my car racing Evo's, sti's, a cobra and various other cars, the last thought while i was bouncing off my rev limiter was my rods, because i built my engine and i have faith in my tuning

so my point is, you build your car and i will build mine, but dont tell me that i built mine wrong and set your imaginary HP limit on my motor because IT HAS BEEN PROVEN that they can handle it. and where did you get 30% margin of error? no offense but im pretty sure your pulling numbers out your ass. THE LIMIT AND MARGIN OF ERROR IS IN THE OWNER AND BUILDER OF THE CAR! but sure eagle rods ARE stronger, but if you detonate at 30psi from bad tuning it wont matter what rods you have, your gonna break shit

 

[jdub]

I'm not forcing my opinion on anyone slick...at least not any more than you are

I never said it was wrong...nor never set "imaginary" limits. When you start pushing 550-600 HP guess what becomes your #1 problem? Avoiding detonation with the tune due to the dynamic compression inherient at that level. All I said was the stock rods leave you little or no margin for error at that HP level...and regardless of your opinion, the margin of error you build into a motor at that HP level does matter. Any experienced engine builder knows that. Do me a favor and read what I post and stop saying that I am stating something different.

I did build my motor...with Crower billet rods. They'll be the last thing that will fail.

 

[Red7m]

Well since stock rods after being Shot peened/magnafluxed/ recondidtioned with arp bolts will run you around $200-250 and eagles can be found at some places such as AlmoAutosport for $450. $200 is little money to pay when building a motor, and is a little for the extra insurance IMO.

Editut $45 instead of $450

 

[QWIKSTRIKE]

I'm not forcing my opinion on anyone slick...at least not any more than you are

I never said it was wrong...nor never set "imaginary" limits. When you start pushing 550-600 HP guess what becomes your #1 problem? Avoiding detonation with the tune due to the dynamic compression inherient at that level. All I said was the stock rods leave you little or no margin for error at that HP level...and regardless of your opinion, the margin of error you build into a motor at that HP level does matter. Any experienced engine builder knows that. Do me a favor and read what I post and stop saying that I am stating something different.

I did build my motor...with Crower billet rods. They'll be the last thing that will fail.

Bingo...You better get tuned well regardless of what roods you use. Going stronger does assist in weak tunes. However; I also at this point have stock rods and the tuning is where they fail, because they are beefy rods. Keep that engine tuned , and I feel they can take 700RWHP just like Sebau. If untuned any motor will have a problem. Personally to go beyond 500RWHP you should have a standalone for optimal tuning!

 

[madsupra88]

Well since stock rods after being Shot peened/magnafluxed/ recondidtioned with arp bolts will run you around $200-250 and eagles can be found at some places such as AlmoAutosport for $45. $200 is little money to pay when building a motor, and is a little for the extra insurance IMO.

Wait a sec, could you please link me to them, i am interested

 

[jdub]

Best prices I've seen for 7M rods is Flatlander-IPP:
http://www.importperformanceparts.net/imports/importsbottom.html

Eagle - $485
Pauter - $1000
Crower - $1035

Eagle rods are forged...Pauter and Crower rods are billet.

Flatlander also offers reconditioned stock rods (new bushings, ARP bolts, shot peened, and cryogenically treated) for $325...pretty good deal IMO if you decide to stay with the stock rods. I'd call them vs ordering online to ensure stock.

You can get Eagle rods on eBay for $460.

If Supra Rich can give you a good price on a piston/rod combo, I'd go for that

 

[Red7m]

Wait a sec, could you please link me to them, i am interested

http://alamoautosports.com/index.php?cPath=2_164_2304_2305_2371
They are also the ones that sell the Eagles on Ebay for cheap that JDUB is talking about. I just dont see the point in running aftermarket pistons with stock rods, when the Eagles are so cheap.

 

[starscream5000]

^That's a great deal, that has to be the lowest I've seen them at so far.

 

[oscolivar1]

i don't even know if i can trust those rods if they are that cheap...
thats $50 difference

 

[starscream5000]

An eagle rod is the same no matter the price IIRC.

 

[madsupra88]

http://alamoautosports.com/index.php?cPath=2_164_2304_2305_2371
They are also the ones that sell the Eagles on Ebay for cheap that JDUB is talking about. I just dont see the point in running aftermarket pistons with stock rods, when the Eagles are so cheap.

Yea, you said 45$ a rod that comes out to 270, thats why i was confused.

 

[Red7m]

Yea, you said 45$ a rod that comes out to 270, thats why i was confused.

I meant to say $450, instead of $45. Sorry about that.

 

[IJ.]

Best prices I've seen for 7M rods is Flatlander-IPP:
http://www.importperformanceparts.net/imports/importsbottom.html

Eagle - $485
Pauter - $1000
Crower - $1035

Eagle rods are forged...Pauter and Crower rods are billet.

Flatlander also offers reconditioned stock rods (new bushings, ARP bolts, shot peened, and cryogenically treated) for $325...pretty good deal IMO if you decide to stay with the stock rods. I'd call them vs ordering online to ensure stock.

You can get Eagle rods on eBay for $460.

If Supra Rich can give you a good price on a piston/rod combo, I'd go for that

Ummm nope

"E4340 vacuum melt chrome moly forging – CNC machined

Heat-treated to Rockwell C36; full coverage shotpeened; end-to-end balanced in sets.

Pauter 220k psi tensile strength MSP220 steel, J-formed, rolled thread racing rod bolts (standard.)

Aluminum-bronze wrist pin bushings (standard.) "

 

[jdub]

I stand corrected

 

[IJ.]

Sit it's much more comfy Dub

 

[RTA Supra]

Glad I found this thread. I'm currently sourcing the internals for my bottom end as we speak. Can't say how much I appreciate the info from you guys, especially one's with the on hand experience

 

[Inygknok]

I know everyone recommends using some good aftermarket stuff, I tell my friends the same when they want to build themselves suicide machines. Still, the current Supra I'm building is seriously going to be my weekend chill-driver. I might take it to the track once every 2 months or so just for fun.


I had the pistons and rods shot peened and balanced when I first bought the car about 4 years ago now. I only put about..... honestly, 101% guaranteed, less than 15K miles on it after the fuel filter died and a cousin of mine messed up the intercooler when I asked him to fix the turbo for me.


Power goal? Will it help to say I would just like a "modest" 350rwhp? I dunno..... as of this moment, I don't want to have to spend on new pistons and rods if I'm really not going to be pushing this one in particular as hard as some of you. Should I just go order the ARP's and forget about any concerns?

 

[born2drv]

I agree with jdub, If you're building a 500+hp motor don't use the stock rods. Yes you can do it and many others have, but why would you want to take a chance or limit your hp goals for later in the game. Plus with the new upgraded cams and other products out in the market now for our engines that should offer quicker spool and higher revving that not everyone has used and proven to work well with stock rods, why would you want to just hope your motor will hold up? If you have a smaller upgraded turbo and want to push it for 450hp all day then sure use stock rods. But more then that I would not recommend either.

 

[jdub]

Interesting tech article on the various types of rods:
http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/choosing_the_right_connecting_rods/