Only takes a sec to melt a piston with detonation. So even if it does see the issue and corrects after the fact it still wont matter.
7MGTE egr or no egr
- Thread starter IndigoMKII
- Start date
Took the egr off my car 11 years ago. Ran the stock ecu up to 30 psi on various turbo's up to a 67mm turbo with an afc and a vpc for over 6 years on a stock internalled engine without ever having a single problem. There used to be concern that there was some thermal strain put on number six cylinder because of the EGR coolers location plus every one I have ever seen has the passage in the intake stopped up . I believe the only ecu that will even set a code for an egr issue is the California emission tuned ecu's. Every Federal ecu 7m-gte I have ever tuned could have cared less about the EGR system.
X-man;1735320 said:
Stripping the egr is fine when you tune for it... The problem arises when someone does not have any means to tune and they run at part throttle.
The egr system is closed during wot so full throttle runs and tuning won't know a difference...
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I dont have an afc to tune with but have an adjustable resistor hooked up to the iat, fooling the ecu of the actual temp, which in turn dumps more fuel. Also have a holley 255 fuel pump. Just finishing a rebuild and blocked off the egr. Anyone have this type of setup to know if it will work first hand without an afc?
So you run richer than stock while still in the stock ecus mapping range? That makes no sense. Stock ecu absolutely Dumps fuel during wot, no need to increase that.
With no fuel management and I'm guessing no wideband to monitor you should absolutely 100% use the egr system. Easy decision.
If you want to drop the egr you need a means of tuning and a way to monitor. And no, your resistor does not count, lol.
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With no fuel management and I'm guessing no wideband to monitor you should absolutely 100% use the egr system. Easy decision.
If you want to drop the egr you need a means of tuning and a way to monitor. And no, your resistor does not count, lol.
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X-man;1735320 said:
We've heard this before: "Not every engine is the same..." My built 7M's is still using the TCCS, which pulls ignition timing on occasion, due to knock detection below 4000RPM. EGR is deleated, it is tuned w/AFC NEO, more fuel in the range from 1200-3600RPMs, w/an AFPR and 8 degrees base timing. WOT AFR is 10.5, because there is never any knock.
My next upgrade will be stand alone ECU, to get control of the timing. Van
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After reading all the posts I must say I'm confused. I am running a JDM 7M GTE engine which came with no EGR, and also converted from slushbox to 5 speed so I purchased a good (mostly) harness and ECU for a turbo but assume it was for a USA car. I don't seem to have any detonation issues but am running stock turbo (rebuilt) and stock BOV. Should I be worried and install the EGR from my old na engine? I Have eliminated the first cat only because I didn't have one and am running fairly free exhaust after the stock cat and still have the restrictive turbo out elbow.
If you have a USDM ECU and no EGR, you're engine is NOT running as it supposed to. It doesn't matter if you can *feel* detonation or not. You are running lean on part throttle.
Imagine going uphill at ~50% throttle:
The USDM ECU is expecting extra inert gas in you air mixture. This gas will not combust, so the ECU is programmed to add less fuel than it normally would. If you have removed the EGR system, your car is now seeing MORE combustable air and less fuel. You are now running lean. Not good. If you're going uphill at 50% throttle you might not even notice that you're building a little boost. Running lean is fine at low load levels and catastrophic at high load levels. This situation could absolutely kill an otherwise healthy engine.
If you have the motor in car, I would get a JDM ECU or get a means of tuning. Installing an entire EGR system in car is not a good experience. Certain parts are very difficult to get to. JDM ECU is the easy solution. Just buy one, plug it in and never worry about it. If you want to tune down the road, then maybe an SAFC or something would be a good investment. You need some way of adding fuel back in where the USDM ECU takes fuel away.
Three options:
1: Buy a JDM ECU. Done.
OR
2: Buy a fuel management system. This can be as simple as a used Apexi SAFC and a visit to a tuning shop that knows what they're doing. Tune to add a little extra fuel where it is running lean and boom. Done. (You could also get a wideband and monitor your tune yourself. This will allow you to make adjustments as you go and avoid a "tune shop" that may have NO clue what they're doing.)
OR
3: Buy all EGR parts and install them to have an OEM setup
Or you could take the cheap route and just leave it. Don't expect any sympathy if the motor goes south.
Imagine going uphill at ~50% throttle:
The USDM ECU is expecting extra inert gas in you air mixture. This gas will not combust, so the ECU is programmed to add less fuel than it normally would. If you have removed the EGR system, your car is now seeing MORE combustable air and less fuel. You are now running lean. Not good. If you're going uphill at 50% throttle you might not even notice that you're building a little boost. Running lean is fine at low load levels and catastrophic at high load levels. This situation could absolutely kill an otherwise healthy engine.
If you have the motor in car, I would get a JDM ECU or get a means of tuning. Installing an entire EGR system in car is not a good experience. Certain parts are very difficult to get to. JDM ECU is the easy solution. Just buy one, plug it in and never worry about it. If you want to tune down the road, then maybe an SAFC or something would be a good investment. You need some way of adding fuel back in where the USDM ECU takes fuel away.
Three options:
1: Buy a JDM ECU. Done.
OR
2: Buy a fuel management system. This can be as simple as a used Apexi SAFC and a visit to a tuning shop that knows what they're doing. Tune to add a little extra fuel where it is running lean and boom. Done. (You could also get a wideband and monitor your tune yourself. This will allow you to make adjustments as you go and avoid a "tune shop" that may have NO clue what they're doing.)
OR
3: Buy all EGR parts and install them to have an OEM setup
Or you could take the cheap route and just leave it. Don't expect any sympathy if the motor goes south.
I didn't think the EGR used the BSVS, just the VSV?
Please correct me because I'm just peiceing my egr together now.
Please correct me because I'm just peiceing my egr together now.
Poodles;1736465 said:There is another option, you can modify the ECU
More details? I'm putting my car back together soon and would like to know some options on this. More than likely go JDM ECU, unless this isn't ridiculous hard
Believe it still needs to be confirmed, but on the GE ECU the only difference between a JDM and USDM ECU is a resistor.
I'm pretty green at all this, but I thought the ECU reads the O2 sensor to trim fuel mix so why doesn't the ECU "see" the lean condition and compensate? If I must run a JDM ECU where can I get one, or can anyone give details on how to properly identify which I have now and how to modify if needed?
It will but the o2 sensor doesnt tell it by how much. Just says to add fuel or take fuel away.
Whats the problem with just leaving it on? Its not big, its at the back, you can hardly see it, Some people cant even find it, it doesnt take away power.
I really dont get what the whole deal is. Taking it out is not going to make your engine look cleaner. You need to do a lot to the engine bay esp with a 7m to actually make it look clean. 7m has a ton of parts and its all 80's cluttered style.
Whats the problem with just leaving it on? Its not big, its at the back, you can hardly see it, Some people cant even find it, it doesnt take away power.
I really dont get what the whole deal is. Taking it out is not going to make your engine look cleaner. You need to do a lot to the engine bay esp with a 7m to actually make it look clean. 7m has a ton of parts and its all 80's cluttered style.
X-man;1735320 said:
Thank you. someone gets it right, the egr on our cars was put there for only one reason to reduce emissions, these cars are to modern to have heat induced detonation. Now if you have a bad o2 sensor and some how you ecu did not pick up on it you could possible run lean enough to get heat detonation but your o2 sensor would have to be stuck lean. You would get a lean misfire before you’re even able to run the car long enough to get detonation. People need to stop repeating what they hear from some guy. I worked on cars for years have had cars with egr’s stock open and cause major drivability problems, take it off and they ran fine if for some reason you get a ping it’s most likely that you engine has some carbon build up, 90% of the time that can be cured by running higher octane gas..
God how I love these EGR threads.
You know, I'm far from an eco-nazi but technical arguments aside why is it nobody ever mentions the moral, ethical, and legal issues about removing the thing from street cars. Not only are those doing it violating federal law but they're also defeating a device that eliminates the absolute worst of the three automotive pollutants that poison the air we all breathe.
Why do I never read about that in these threads? There must be a reason. Could it be because those involved are self-centered enough to care only about what they want while having little regard for the law, the environment, or their fellow man? Nah....
You know, I'm far from an eco-nazi but technical arguments aside why is it nobody ever mentions the moral, ethical, and legal issues about removing the thing from street cars. Not only are those doing it violating federal law but they're also defeating a device that eliminates the absolute worst of the three automotive pollutants that poison the air we all breathe.
Why do I never read about that in these threads? There must be a reason. Could it be because those involved are self-centered enough to care only about what they want while having little regard for the law, the environment, or their fellow man? Nah....
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ians13;1738072 said:
It also increases gas milage, lowers the chance of detonation and lowers EGT's. It's not "heat induced detonation," it's timing and load.
jetjock;1738101 said:
Because that arguement never works. Tried it with people people that run catless cars...