7M-GTE torque numbers.. 80 lb/ft or higher?

[paul0075]

The BHG replacement has been done...
Here are what's done to the engine:
Head rebuilt 3 angle job with very smooth finish.
The block checked with straight edge feeler and cleaned thoroughly.
2.00 mm Titan Motor Sport MLS head gasket.
ARP head bolts.
NGK new plugs and wires.
All new gaskets throughout..
New belts, new water pump, new thermostat, and new hoses.

Now,
The head gasket was torqued to 80 lb/ft and after test driving it, we noticed that there is a visible oil leak coming from the front where the timing belt is.
The question is, should we re-torgue the head gasket to a higher number? and what number should we go up to? 90 lb/ft?
Or we should take the head out and check for any possible problems?

All suggestions are very welcomed
Thanks

 

[ForcedTorque]

A few questions....

How did you determine what size gasket to use?

What RA was the block and head machined to?

Did you have the cam gear backing plate machined with the head? This is your leak if not.

Your ARP's should have come with instructions on how to torque them depending on the lube used.

 

[TurboStreetCar]

Also if you did mill the timing cover and the block together you need to have put sealer (Toyota FIPG Recommended) on the surface of the deck where the timing cover and block meet.

 

[shaeff]

Lastly, in addition to what the previous two said, was there a rivet on the mating surface of the gasket, and if so, did you remove it?

 

[jdub]

Did you have the cam gear backing plate machined with the head? This is your leak if not.

If this is the case, it's very likely the MHG will not seal.

you need to have put sealer (Toyota FIPG Recommended) on the surface of the deck where the timing cover and block meet.

An oil leak is very likely if RTV or FPIG was not applied in the locations specified by the TSRM.

was there a rivet on the mating surface of the gasket, and if so, did you remove it?

If this is the case, it's very likely the MHG will not seal.


ARP spec for studs is 80 ft/lbs using moly...you do not want to exceed this.

 

[paul0075]

Wow,
I didn't know anything about the cam gear backing plate..
I will check with my mechanic/the machine shop..
About the rivets, I asked the question here on the forum and backed it up with pictures, and I was told that its the newer gasket and I wouldn't need to remove the rivets. See this and let me know what you think:
http://www.supramania.com/forums/showthread.php?t=81728
We used the Moly that came with the ARP..
The gasket size was determined after measuring the head and it measured 115 mm..

What I think happened was that we didn't seal where the timing cover and block meet... I own a 1990 Supra TSRM.

I will be meeting my mechanic tomorrow and do some checking..

What do you guys recommend that I do?

I certainly appreciate all your inputs guys..

 

[*james*]

Cam seals?

 

[paul0075]

Cam seals?

I will be checking that..
Will I be able to re-use my TMS MHG or should I buy another one?
Thanks

 

[jdub]

Was the block decked? If not, the rear timing plate is fine. Be aware if the block is not smooth enough, the MHG may not seal.

If any rivet touches the block deck, it needs to be removed. If not, it's fine. Just like I said in the previous thread

You will have to remove the stud nuts to apply the RTV. The question is how much was the motor run? If the factory Viton sticks to either the block or head decks, you will have to remove the MHG, clean off all the factory coating, and apply a couple coats of copper spray to replace it.

Suggest you read this thoroughly, especially step #1....click on "Using a Torque Wrench" on the left.
http://www.arp-bolts.com/Tech/TechInstall.html

I just noticed you are using ARP bolts...in that case, the spec is 75 ft/lbs w/ moly.

 

[paul0075]

Was the block decked? If not, the rear timing plate is fine. Be aware if the block is not smooth enough, the MHG may not seal.

If any rivet touches the block deck, it needs to be removed. If not, it's fine. Just like I said in the previous thread

You will have to remove the stud nuts to apply the RTV. The question is how much was the motor run? If the factory Viton sticks to either the block or head decks, you will have to remove the MHG, clean off all the factory coating, and apply a couple coats of copper spray to replace it.

Suggest you read this thoroughly, especially step #1....click on "Using a Torque Wrench" on the left.
http://www.arp-bolts.com/Tech/TechInstall.html

I just noticed you are using ARP bolts...in that case, the spec is 75 ft/lbs w/ moly.

The block was cleaned and checked for smoothness, I don't have the numbers as for now...
The motor was run for maybe 1 hour or less, just to check for leaks..
It's still a fresh gasket.
What I understood is that I can apply cam sealer and leave the MHG if the viton wasn't sealing yet? And then put the head back on and torque up the ARP bols?
Please correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[jdub]

Was the block deck machined or not? It's a simple yes or no question

The Viton coating is likely fine, you won't know till you look.

If the coating is ok, put it back on, put the RTV in the proper place, and torque to 75 ft/lbs using the TSRM sequence in 15 ft/lb increments.
Did you read the ARP link concerning fastener preload and lube or was I talking to myself again?

I have NFI what you are talking about when you say "cam sealer".

 

[nsngarage]

Let us know what happens with the mechanic..

and for my own knowledge, when using a MHG you're supposed to have the block deck prepped correct? (obviously along with the timing backing plate)

 

[paul0075]

Was the block deck machined or not? It's a simple yes or no question

The Viton coating is likely fine, you won't know till you look.

If the coating is ok, put it back on, put the RTV in the proper place, and torque to 75 ft/lbs using the TSRM sequence in 15 ft/lb increments.
Did you read the ARP link concerning fastener preload and lube or was I talking to myself again?

I have NFI what you are talking about when you say "cam sealer".

I didn't mean to type CAM SEALER... I meant cam seals..
LOL, yes I read the ARP link.... I'm not doing the work, my mechanic is, but I enforced it that he follows the instructions come with the ARP box, and he did.
The block deck wasn't machined... The block was left in the car..
P.S. Any RTV brand preferred?

Thanks for the patience

 

[paul0075]

Let us know what happens with the mechanic..

and for my own knowledge, when using a MHG you're supposed to have the block deck prepped correct? (obviously along with the timing backing plate)

I will let you know tomorrow....
I totally agree with the block preparation and the timing bracket...
I just didn't have the funds to take the block out of the car and do a complete rebuild.... That's why I decided doing it this way.. That's all.

 

[nsngarage]

Ehh.. good point, although when you have to rip it all back apart it's gonna cost more than it originally would have, sadly

But I hear ya on wantin to get stuff together No one likes a "parked" supra

 

[paul0075]

Ehh.. good point, although when you have to rip it all back apart it's gonna cost more than it originally would have, sadly

But I hear ya on wantin to get stuff together No one likes a "parked" supra

Yeah, I know... I'm not the kind of a guy who likes to cut corners, but I had a bigger priority at the same time.. I'm buying a house, so spending big buck$ on the Supra wasn't #1 option. Especially when you are married, LOL.
Many may say, well, you could have waited a little.. But I say, well, I probably wouldn't be able to tackle this for a long time.. I hate to see the car sit in the garage.
Anyway.. I guess tomorrow will be either a bright day or a deal breaker..
Thanks again..

 

[CyFi6]

Did you have the cam gear backing plate machined with the head? This is your leak if not.

I have never heard of needing to do this, that plate has got to have at least .030" movement up and down, as the only things locating it are the screws.

 

[nsngarage]

crossin my fingers for ya

 

[jdub]

Scott meant the rear timing cover...it does need to be machined with the block when it is decked.

Paul - since you did not deck the block, the above rear timing cover is not the problem. Neither is a MHG rivet judging from the pics in your previous thread.

The oil leak is from no RTV on top of the rear timing cover...Permatex or Toyota FIPG will work fine.

 

[paul0075]

crossin my fingers for ya

Thanks, I appreciate it

Scott meant the rear timing cover...it does need to be machined with the block when it is decked.

Paul - since you did not deck the block, the above rear timing cover is not the problem. Neither is a MHG rivet judging from the pics in your previous thread.

The oil leak is from no RTV on top of the rear timing cover...Permatex or Toyota FIPG will work fine.

I hope it's all that is... I'm going to buy either one of those two: Permatex or Toyota FIPG..
Thanks all for chiming in...
Tomorrow I will post more updates of this whole dilemma..