7M build advise please

[Suprapowaz!(2)]

Dan, you went from just wanting to swap over to another 7m to doing a full rebuild with possibly forged pistons, P&P 1mm oversized valve head. Peer pressure.

If that 7m you have lined up is good why not just slap an OEM gasket on it, ARP bolts, and disable the clutch start switch and be done with it?

That way you can take your time with the RK'd block you currently have and rebuild it the right way. That was your plan to begin with right? Don't fall into peer pressure.


harely, you cannot deck a block with the internals still intact. It must be disassembled or else you'll get metal shavings all in it. The only maching shop that'll deck the block with internals in it is one that just wants to take your money. Did you know you have another MKIII member in Killeen (mensrea). Just a fun fact.

 

[harley1985]

cool ill have to look em up. and thanks for clarifying. it is wat i suspected wats a few 100 more i suppose. at least i have a good machine shop close to me. no use trying to put another stocker on there even with ARP's thanks for the info. now im off to price bearing kits lol

 

[suprarx7nut]

hmm if i wanted a douche bag answer then i suppose i went to the rite place. a simple yes or no would suffice. it is not a half ass approach. the bottom end is new, less than 30k in it. like i said before the engine is in perfect running condition. there is no need to open the bottom end. all i want to do is get it machined so i can put a MHG on it. thanks anyhow, now go beat your dog.

Dude. Let me help you out here. When a machinist works on any piece of equipment, metal shavings will go flying. They will get everywhere. Inside EVERY nook and cranny within whatever piece they are working on. Once they are done working on a given piece, they will clean it out. Now, if you ask them to machine a block deck and keep the bottom end assembled, a good machinist will laugh in your face and say, "Haha, good one." They wont be able to clean out the shavings and you will be destined to RUIN your motor, even though your bottom end was "new". Beyond this simple fact, there are other concerns as well, but cleanliness alone is a good enough reason no machinist would ever do what you asked.

Going into the bottom end wont cost much of anything anyways. If it really is brand new, then dont replace anything. Just disassemble it so the machinist can do their job correctly.

You asked a question and you got an answer. Since the question was a little outlandish, you got some spicy responses. Regardless, the appropriate response from you would be, "Oh, wow. Sorry guys I didn't realize how bad an idea that was. Oh well, now I know and I'll be sure to do it right. Thanks!"

Yeah, the question right now is if I have the extra for the forged pistons. at $425, the Probe pistons seem like a good deal, and considering that I need at least rings for the stockers, it's not THAT much more... but still more, and not needed for my power goals. Just that I know that my goals tend to change, once I reach them.

What are the limits of the stock pistons? With a good tune, I think they can handle a TON of power, but I'm not really sure where the cutoff is. :dunno:

 

[AJ'S 88NA]

hmm if i wanted a douche bag answer then i suppose i went to the rite place. a simple yes or no would suffice. it is not a half ass approach. the bottom end is new, less than 30k in it. like i said before the engine is in perfect running condition. there is no need to open the bottom end. all i want to do is get it machined so i can put a MHG on it. thanks anyhow, now go beat your dog.

If you are replacing the HG due to it letting loose then it would be advisable to check the bearings anyhow.

 

[IJ.]

hmm if i wanted a douche bag answer then i suppose i went to the rite place. a simple yes or no would suffice. it is not a half ass approach. the bottom end is new, less than 30k in it. like i said before the engine is in perfect running condition. there is no need to open the bottom end. all i want to do is get it machined so i can put a MHG on it. thanks anyhow, now go beat your dog.

If you didn't want a douchebag answer don't ask a douchebag question...

 

[Dan_Gyoba]

Sidetrack thread-stealing questions aside...

Yeah, I had originally just wanted to swap in another block and rebuild mine. This project has grown quite a bit.

The block that I'm swapping in has an OEM gasket, and as far as I've been able to determine, one that isn't blown. I could probably swap it in without even pulling the head, but I wanted some peace of mind, since the block has been sitting without coolant or oil for at least a couple of years.

In the end, however, though I may rebuild my current block, I'm not really that eager to do so. It will probably sit on the engine stand for a while before I remove anything that wasn't removed in order to complete the swap. If a complete rebuild is what's needed, then that's what it'll get. Best case, I won't be pulling the engine from the car ever again. Worst case, I'll have a good long time before needing the block that I'll be pulling.

I've decided against the forged pistons, they simply are not needed for any power goals that I'll be able to support. Instead I spent some money on some air tools to make the job easier. I hope to have a very nice motor to drop in ready by the end of April.

My philosophy with these things has never changed. Never buy stuff which you plan on replacing (Wear parts aside). The cost of cheap stuff is the cost of the cheap stuff plus the cost of the expensive stuff to replace it. In this vein, I'm planning on building a 7M which will handle everything that I'll be asking of it for now and for the forseeable future. If I'm going to pull this 7M, it'll be to transplant it into a different chassis. That said, unexpected things do happen, so it wouldn't hurt to have another block ready, so I'll probably do that.

 

[suprarx7nut]

Sounds like a good plan.

 

[Dan_Gyoba]

Yeah, my only thing now is what support electronics I should have.

I'm basically running the stock TCCS now, with the Aeromotive AFPR set to ~42 PSI, PTE 560cc injectors and Lexus AFM with a longer adjust screw, which I tweaked until my Vf stopped complaining when driving around at part throttle. I have an HK$ SSQV with the recirculation fitting, to avoid the nasty rich conditions that venting to atmosphere gives. Boost control is just a simple manual controller, with no on-the-fly adjustment at all.

The MAF-T Pro looked like a good thing to me, and I like some of the options that it provides, but I'm not sure if it's a good value, or if there are other things that can give me more/better options. As I understand, the MAF-T Pro uses wideband and can manage a boost control solenoid. I also understand that it uses a MAP sensor, so I don't need the recirc fitting on the SSQV anymore.

For the large part, I'm happy with the job that the TCCS does, and I don't think that I want to go with the work and potential trouble of going with a full stand-alone, but if the rewards in tunability and performance are worthwhile, I could possibly be convinced. I know that the guys going for BIG power all say stand-alone, but unless ~425 RWHP is in that range, I'm not one of those guys. Keep in mind that that's a mid to long-term goal as well, my more immediate goals are for mid-300s with what I'll have when the motor is ready to drop in, since I'm sure that I'll need some more tuning control to get past the 400 RWHP mark.

 

[Dan_Gyoba]

Parts in.

ARP head studs:

Titan 1.4mm MHG

7M rebuild Gasket set

OEM Oil pump. Decided against the upgraded unit, but it was a close decision.

FIPG and new OEM timing belt. (Why not when you're in there, right?)

And of course the 7M-GTE that it's going to be installed in.

Still to come, new bearings and rings. The bearings when I get my polished crank and measure it, and I'll just order the rings at the same time. I've also going to get the DM upgraded oil pump line from a local member here, just because. Also the intake manifold that came with this motor was damaged, so I'll get another one of those, too. I'll also be getting ahold of some shims for the head, so that I can make adjustments after the valves are out. I guess I need new retainer clips and the like for those as well, but I don't expect those to be difficult to get, or expensive. I'm more concerned about a valve spring compressor tool, which I plan to rent.

I think that covers everything.

 

[suprarx7nut]

Few things: unless you're referring to some pump I've never heard of, upgraded oil pump is simply a few washers. You can make your pump an "upgraded" one for under $2.00.

You simply shim the relief spring so the internal pump relief is higher.

Valve retainers. I don't get why you'd need new ones. I'm lost. They are completely reusable unless I'm missing something.

Spring compressor tool: not many of the rental units work on our motors. The valve design doesn't leave much any room to grab onto the springs and I never found a rental that would even come close. I made a compressor tool out of pvc and steel bar. Cost nearly nothing and works ok. Still definitely a pain to do valve work.

Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk

 

[Dan_Gyoba]

Not the keeper, just the non-reusable snap rings.

I figured that it was something like that for the oil pump. I'll leave mine as-is.

For the spring compressor, I'll figure something out.

 

[jonahs_supra]

http://compare.ebay.com/like/110849374637?var=lv&ltyp=AllFixedPriceItemTypes&var=sbar

bought this blue point valve spring compressor tool off the snap on guy 2 years ago when doing a valve job on a mitsubishi 2.5
worked wonders and plenty of adjustments

my last 87 supra i installed comp cam BBC valve springs
this tool made it a breeze

while im talking about my 87 supra
previous owner installed MHG with ARP head studs
had head milled but left block alone
after driving it for 8 months the headgasket finally blew lol

 

[IJ.]

Make sure you check the front rivet in the MHG for interference Dan.

 

[harley1985]

grumpy old man, your a douche! (just had to get that in) question, Dan, are you going to use the oil pan gasket or just seal it up with some sillicone? i ask cuz im fixin to pull everything part and some say just toss it and some say to use it. i used the last one but had a small leak, kept trying to tighten it and eventually squashed the gasket (it was a cork)

 

[IJ.]

grumpy old man, your a douche! (just had to get that in) question, Dan, are you going to use the oil pan gasket or just seal it up with some sillicone? i ask cuz im fixin to pull everything part and some say just toss it and some say to use it. i used the last one but had a small leak, kept trying to tighten it and eventually squashed the gasket (it was a cork)

I may be very well a douche in your uninformed opinion but I've forgotten more about cars in general and Mk3's and machine work than you'll ever know and I just happen to be a Mod so feel free if you want to push this any further...your call..

 

[AJ'S 88NA]

grumpy old man, your a douche! (just had to get that in) question, Dan, are you going to use the oil pan gasket or just seal it up with some sillicone? i ask cuz im fixin to pull everything part and some say just toss it and some say to use it. i used the last one but had a small leak, kept trying to tighten it and eventually squashed the gasket (it was a cork)

Don't want to use a cork gasket.

 

[Dan_Gyoba]

@1J: I'll do that. What should I do if the rivet is thick? I'd figure either drill it out and install without it, or hit it with a punch to make it flatter, but not sure which would be the better idea.

@Harley: I'll do as the TSRM says, which is to use FIPG or silicone to seal the oil pan. Used silicone on the one that's in the car, and it didn't leak. (Only been a couple years, so I wouldn't expect it to.)

Been way too busy to pull things apart, but I want to get on that by this weekend, since I want the car on the road before the end of May.

 

[IJ.]

Dan: It's NOT a "1"

You just remove the offending rivet, some say it's been moved in later MHG's but I'd check anyway.

Easiest/safest way I found to remove it is a small pair of wire cutters just squash the small end then pull it though from the big side.

I've had very good success using 3bond 1207b for the pan
(tried a LOT of different things over the years the 3bond stuff is a little exe but works well)

 

[Devin LeBlanc]

I use ultra black RTV on all the motors I build. Never had one leak to this date.

 

[Dan_Gyoba]

@IJ: Whoops. Had a brain fart typing there. I did actually know that. Thanks for the advise, sounds like it'll save me a major headache. I count 5 rivets, the frontmost of which looks like it's near the alternator bracket. I snapped a pic of it when it arrived, then put it back in its bubble wrap until I'm ready to use it. The pic is back a few posts (Previous page, for me.) Don't know of the pic tells the story well enough though.

The gasket kit from Driftmotion came with a tube of FIPG, so I'll use that for the pan. It also included a cork gasket, but since I despise cork gaskets, I won't use it.

I'll be running around buying fluids and the like soon. Figure I might as well flush and fill the transmission (Even if the Redline MT90 is expensive), and of course fresh coolant and oil/filter. What are opinions about filter relocation kits? I'm pretty sure that the kits for the Ford 5.0 motors work on the M blocks. I wouldn't mind the chance to run a better oil cooler at the very least. If you use the relocation kit, do you need to retain the adapter on the side of the GTE block? (I think its only function is to have a pressure bypass on the filter and supply the OEM oil cooler, and move the filter so that it is accessible past the IC piping.)

Saturday the tear-down begins in earnest. Off with it's head! (Or something like that.) With luck, I'll also get a good start on the bottom end before it gets too cold/dark. Kind of sucks to be doing this in an unheated garage with poor light, but better that than outside!