57trim woes.. in need of experienced wisdom

[zambini]

hey all,

earlier this summer i had my turbo rebuilt as a 57 trim by driftmotion. when i got it back, i noticed that my coolant hardlines wouldnt sit flush against the housing. the nipple that enters the turbo housing was hitting the inside of the housing at a very obtuse angle. in order to install the piece, i used a wood block to knock the lines into place so that i could mount them up flush.

once installed, my bearings deteriorated to the point at which my impeller wheel was scraping the housing in about 150 miles, or 2 weeks of driving. i took the turbo off, sent it back to driftmotion, and they told me the turbo wasnt getting any oil because they couldnt see any evidence that the turbo was shitting oil. i checked my oil lines, and they contained oil, and i checked my banjo bolts, which also contained oil, and didnt see any sign of blockage in any of the parts i inspected. my only guess was that there was a blockage in the oil passages in the turbo itself. i prepped the turbo with oil per the tsrm, and cold cranked it before i started it until i got 20psi of oil pressure per the stock gauge. oil pressure was normal the whole time i ran the turbo.

driftmotion rebuilt the turbo again and sent it back. i still dont really know why my turbo died, but upon trying to reinstall my coolant hardlines, i got the same issue- they wont sit flush against the gasket surface, as pictured here:

the weirdest thing about this issue is that when i put the hardlines on the other side of the turbo where the blockoff plate is supposed to be installed, it sits perfectly flush:

when i forced the lines onto the turbo initially, i ended up bending the nipple in a little bit, so i tried to straighten it back out in a vice:

i think it would work, but it ended up cracking the metal, so i ordered a NEW set of lines from toyota today for good measure..

the reason this concerns me so much is that before i ever sent my turbo off, or when i removed the lines from my original stock turbo, they mounted up fine, and i never had any trouble out of the turbo in that form. when i ran the rebuilt turbo, it appeared to be very hot, as it was steaming after i drove it hard.. i wrote it off as gasket material among other things burning off, since it was new.:3d_frown:

i reckon my turbo was getting really hot.. TOO hot. as far as i know it was getting oil the whole time. is it possible that my turbo was running so hot that the oil inside of it was evaporating, leading to bearing failure? as a result of the coolant nipple being slightly deformed? i never blew any black blue or white smoke when i drove it.

is it possible that my turbo is clocked wrong or that it has been reassembled incorrectly so that the lines will not fit? is it just a matter of the mounting studs being off center? do you think this is the issue that killed my turbo, or should i continue to look for an oiling issue? how do i get these lines to mount up flush anyway?

i do not want to kill another turbo. im running out of time here before fall semester starts, and when i assemble the turbo system this time, i want it to stay that way.

ANY INPUT IS GREATLY APPRECIATED!

thanks,

aaron

 

[zambini]

anybody? why wont my lines bolt up flush?

 

[boostin300]

Are you 100% POSITIVE they sent you back YOUR turbo? I have heard of people sending theirs off and getting a new one back that was not the original they sent. IE you send your turbo, they use it as a core for a future customer or for parts and send you someone else's they rebuilt to your wanted spec. It's very possible and if they sent you a turbo that is a different year than the one you sent off, the dimensions could be different causing something to go wrong somewhere. It's also possible they sent you a turbo that was previously blown that they repaired/upgraded to the 57 trim spec and sent to you, and it was just a sucky turbo and blew again.

Don't know about Driftmotion, I've heard the name a lot so I guess they're reputable but I've never used them personally. Might want to check in on that.. in the future though I'd send it off to Turbonetics, they kick ass with turbos. I believe it's around $500 to have a stock CT26 upgraded to a 57. Hell, you could get a 60-1 for around the same price. 57 trim is usually the safest you *should* go with for a CT26 as they're a crap turbo to try and get big (450+) power with.

You could just say screw it and buy a single turbo and be done with it, and make a buttload more power. But then you'd need a new manifold, downpipe, wastegate. Just do it and don't look back, it's worth it.

Can't tell you for sure though what happened to yours, sounds like a bad bearing even though it should be brand new

Edit: And yeah it could be possible it's clocked wrong since during the rebuild they take the whole thing apart. They probably didn't bolt the comp/exhaust housings back exactly the way they came, so it might be 20-30 degrees off from stock. Could also be the reason it fried.. if your oil out line is not 100% downhill (or very close to it) it WILL slow oil flow since there's no pump = hott turbo. That oil coming out depends probably 95% on gravity, if your return line is going uphill at all your oil flow will suck. If that is the case, and you don't want to go aftermarket single, get it rebuilt again and make sure it's clocked at stock.

EDit #2 lol - could be very possible your turbo is clocked 180deg off:hsugh: hahaha ... sorry but if that sits flush on that other port..mount it on your manifold and see if that's the case. dude if it is and you can prove they clocked it upsidedown before they sent it back you better get them to pay for a new one. I'd be pissed like none other, a mistake like that can cost you a motor.

Good luck man.

 

[3p141592654]

I'm no turbo expert, but it seems possible that it is clocked wrong and that is causing the ports to not be aligned right.

 

[HommerSimpson]

if the oil line and drain are on the bottom... it cant be clocked wrong... id say you prob got a diferant turbo... or are doing something wrong yourself... but as long as the oil lines are on bottom... it cant be clocked wrong

 

[zambini]

thanks for the replies guys. well, i still cant blame driftmotion for the durbo's death, because i still dont know exactly why it died.. theyve been good to me throughout this whole process so far. waiting for someone like IJ or poodles to chime in with some sound advice.

as far as the turbo being 180 off, that is what i had originally thought when i realized that the other port fit the lines (or vice versa.) but then that would put the oil port on top of the turbo, meaning the lines would go straight up. i just dont know.

 

[MDCmotorsports]

Are you 100% POSITIVE they sent you back YOUR turbo? I have heard of people sending theirs off and getting a new one back that was not the original they sent. IE you send your turbo, they use it as a core for a future customer or for parts and send you someone else's they rebuilt to your wanted spec. It's very possible and if they sent you a turbo that is a different year than the one you sent off, the dimensions could be different causing something to go wrong somewhere. It's also possible they sent you a turbo that was previously blown that they repaired/upgraded to the 57 trim spec and sent to you, and it was just a sucky turbo and blew again.

Wow. Never read so much BS in my life. A ct is a ct is a ct. Hitachi built hundreds of thousands of ct based turbochargers. They are all the same.
When you send in a core to a turbo rebuild company, 90% of the time you get another persons "turbo" back. Its not a big deal. Happens every day.

Don't know about Driftmotion, I've heard the name a lot so I guess they're reputable but I've never used them personally. Might want to check in on that.. in the future though I'd send it off to Turbonetics, they kick ass with turbos. I believe it's around $500 to have a stock CT26 upgraded to a 57. Hell, you could get a 60-1 for around the same price. 57 trim is usually the safest you *should* go with for a CT26 as they're a crap turbo to try and get big (450+) power with.

Wow. More horrible posting. If you don't know, don't post. Turbonetics has a HORRIBLE TRACK HISTORY with a LOT of different markets (diesel, gas, race, etc). Things have been getting better, but I can't really comment due to the fact I'd be a hypocrite. Another thing, if you knew any thing about what you're trying to tell the original poster, you'd know that 60-1 ct26 turbochargers are a bad, bad idea.

The ct26 isn't a crap turbo, it just has a poorly designed oiling system.

You could just say screw it and buy a single turbo and be done with it, and make a buttload more power. But then you'd need a new manifold, downpipe, wastegate. Just do it and don't look back, it's worth it.

Can't tell you for sure though what happened to yours, sounds like a bad bearing even though it should be brand new

Bearings just don't go bad. The original poster could go single tubular manifold, but Im not sure he is ready for such a project yet in his power goals.

Edit: And yeah it could be possible it's clocked wrong since during the rebuild they take the whole thing apart. They probably didn't bolt the comp/exhaust housings back exactly the way they came, so it might be 20-30 degrees off from stock. Could also be the reason it fried.. if your oil out line is not 100% downhill (or very close to it) it WILL slow oil flow since there's no pump = hott turbo. That oil coming out depends probably 95% on gravity, if your return line is going uphill at all your oil flow will suck. If that is the case, and you don't want to go aftermarket single, get it rebuilt again and make sure it's clocked at stock.

Well you're edit sucks. If you understood what you *again* were posting, you'd know you were spreading foul information.

The ct26 is pinned - both compressor housing and turbine housing.

You really can't get the housings clocked off, unless you forget the pins. I'll stand behind Aaron and Driftmotion to say I highly doubt they forgot the alignment pins.

EDit #2 lol - could be very possible your turbo is clocked 180deg off:hsugh: hahaha ... sorry but if that sits flush on that other port..mount it on your manifold and see if that's the case. dude if it is and you can prove they clocked it upsidedown before they sent it back you better get them to pay for a new one. I'd be pissed like none other, a mistake like that can cost you a motor.

Good luck man.

Seriously. Is some one playing a joke on me? Ian? Mike? Can I get some help here?

That ct26 pictured is not 180 rotated.

To the original poster:

You need to do a couple of things:

1.) Go to driftmotion and order the soft line kit. This will ensure the oil line and return oil line are machine flat and will create a good sealing surface. Go to Toyota and order a new water line & flange.

2.) If oil gaskets are not included in the soft line kit, order them from Toyota. The gasket on the turbo and block are crucial for proper oil system function.

3.) TORQUE the bolts on the oil flange(s) to the proper torque in the TSRM

4.) Install the turbo charger. Make sure the oil feed banjo bolt in the block is clean, and the port is VISIBLY not plugged. Ensure that the PCV system is in working order and not vented to atmosphere.

5.) Remove the EFI fuse and crank the car over. Verify that oil is coming out of the oil feed port where the banjo bolt would normally be.

6.) Once you've verified that you have oil coming out of the port, install the oil lines (just the feed).

7.) With the EFI fuse still REMOVED, crank the car over again. Verify that oil is coming out of the return line that is NOT bolted to the block.

8.) If you can verify that oil is coming out of the return, bolt the turn line to the block via oil return flange and new gasket.

9.) Crank the car over again. Verify oil pressure on oil pressure gauge.

10.) Install EFI fuse.

11.) Start car. Let idle for 5 - 10 minutes.

12.) Shut the car off. Remove the accordion hose and wiggle the shaft of the turbo. If the turbo has shaft play beyond limits, the turbo is destroyed.

 

[Doward]

Have your new lines arrived yet?

*edit* Jon beat me to it - I have a feeling we're looking at a slightly crushed flange that's been overtightened, followed by running hot (as coolant will seep out) thereby warping the flange.

Brand new lines will confirm / deny that theory

 

[black89t]

LOL.

that is the wrong coolant inlet!!! there is one on the opposite side. how did you and more importantly DM not notice that the hardlines are in a completely different location from stock. :aigo:

i'm no turbo expert but i bet if the turbo got extremely hot it would instantly cook the oil so that could be the reason it failed.

wtf DM its hella obvious. :nono:

fyi i love performance techniques. they do upgrades to and have good prices.

edit: dam!!! mdc and doward beat me. am i completely wrong or what? :dunno:

 

[zambini]

MDC, thank you for the clear and concise response! my new water lines are gonna be in on monday or tuesday.. toyota said they had to source them from louisiana. i ordered every gasket in the turbo system from toyota parts dept. when i reinstall the turbo, i will torque every bolt to spec. Aaron from DM had suggested trying the method of testing for oil flow you mentioned above, and i will be sure to do that before bolting everything up again. thanks again.

as far as the flange being warped from heat and not fitting, even though it has now been deformed, i dont think that's the issue because they wouldnt properly fit the rebuilt turbo initially, before they saw more intense heat levels.. but as you said the new lines will tell when they arrive.

once again thanks for the responses, and if anyone else wants to chime in i would greatly appreciate it! till then, i guess im gonna have to wait till next week to see what the deal is.

black 98t: say what? not understanding what youre getting at man. can you post a clearer picture of your water inlet? thanks

edit: oh, one more quick question:

should i be seeing gasket material burn off visibly when i run the engine?

 

[Failure14]

MDC, thank you for the clear and concise response! my new water lines are gonna be in on monday or tuesday.. toyota said they had to source them from louisiana. i ordered every gasket in the turbo system from toyota parts dept. when i reinstall the turbo, i will torque every bolt to spec. Aaron from DM had suggested trying the method of testing for oil flow you mentioned above, and i will be sure to do that before bolting everything up again. thanks again.

as far as the flange being warped from heat and not fitting, even though it has now been deformed, i dont think that's the issue because they wouldnt properly fit the rebuilt turbo initially, before they saw more intense heat levels.. but as you said the new lines will tell when they arrive.

once again thanks for the responses, and if anyone else wants to chime in i would greatly appreciate it! till then, i guess im gonna have to wait till next week to see what the deal is.

black 98t: say what? not understanding what youre getting at man. can you post a clearer picture of your water inlet? thanks

edit: oh, one more quick question:

should i be seeing gasket material burn off visibly when i run the engine?

@ Gasket Question:
It all depends on how you install the gasket, if its
not perfectly aligned then yes it will burn the excess off
but its no big deal.

 

[black89t]

MDC, thank you for the clear and concise response! my new water lines are gonna be in on monday or tuesday.. toyota said they had to source them from louisiana. i ordered every gasket in the turbo system from toyota parts dept. when i reinstall the turbo, i will torque every bolt to spec. Aaron from DM had suggested trying the method of testing for oil flow you mentioned above, and i will be sure to do that before bolting everything up again. thanks again.

as far as the flange being warped from heat and not fitting, even though it has now been deformed, i dont think that's the issue because they wouldnt properly fit the rebuilt turbo initially, before they saw more intense heat levels.. but as you said the new lines will tell when they arrive.

once again thanks for the responses, and if anyone else wants to chime in i would greatly appreciate it! till then, i guess im gonna have to wait till next week to see what the deal is.

black 98t: say what? not understanding what youre getting at man. can you post a clearer picture of your water inlet? thanks

edit: oh, one more quick question:

should i be seeing gasket material burn off visibly when i run the engine?

OMG!!!

look at your turbo....there is a block off plate on the OPPOSITE side that is originally where the coolant enters and exits the turbo. WTF. how do you not see on the pic with my turbo the inlet is on the side that the exhaust enters!?!

i don't understand how you even got the original coolent lines to work the first time with them on the opposite side. also the block off plate is where you mount the dipstick to the turbo. how this is confusing i don't really know.

look at the pic in the tsrm. see how there is a plate right there....that is where its suppose to be. your turbo has that open and the plate on the other side. now do you see? :aigo:

http://www.cygnusx1.net/Supra/Library/TSRM/MK3/manual.aspx?S=TC&P=9

and rotating the center section of the turbo will make it so your drain isn't facing down.

new hardlines will be nice but they aren't going to fix this problem....

cliffs: you need to put the block off plate on the side that you have been trying to install your hardlines. the center section is made to work on different motors so they have two coolant inlets. one of which has to be blocked off...

 

[zambini]

lol read what i wrote man.. there IS no blockoff plate installed right now. it is in a little baggy. the hardlines are mocked up on BOTH sides of my turbo in the pictures. they are NOT mounting up where they ARE supposed to. the OTHER pictures with the lines mounting FLUSH are on the WRONG side of the turbo, where the blockoff is SUPPOSED to be installed. im not actually trying to mount them there, and for the love of god i didnt have them installed that way when i ran my turbo hahaha.. the soft lines wouldnt connect to them and youd think i would notice. no man im not that dumb. the issue is sadly more complex and troublesome..

i was wondering what you were talking about..

 

[boostin300]

Wow. Never read so much BS in my life. A ct is a ct is a ct. Hitachi built hundreds of thousands of ct based turbochargers. They are all the same.
When you send in a core to a turbo rebuild company, 90% of the time you get another persons "turbo" back. Its not a big deal. Happens every day.

There are different models of CT like you said (IE 26 / 12A) and it is possible to get sent back the wrong turbo. It HAS happened. Rarely, but has. As far as getting someone else's turbo, some companies send you back YOURS rebuilt, others send you a different turbo. The thing people don't realize is some turbos these companies get are blown turbos used as a core from a crap car, and are PERMANENTLY out of spec in terms of bearing seat or other things, and WILL blow sooner than if it was the correct spec. The only things replaced are a bored housing, new wheel/bearing/shaft/seals or whatever else. They are replaced on a system out of spec. How do you know they do the right measurements to determine if a bearing seat is in spec or a housing isn't warped and effects something else? You DONT because you send your turbo in and expect to get a good one back. Even a reputable company can do that every now and then, that's all I was saying.

Wow. More horrible posting. If you don't know, don't post. Turbonetics has a HORRIBLE TRACK HISTORY with a LOT of different markets (diesel, gas, race, etc). Things have been getting better, but I can't really comment due to the fact I'd be a hypocrite. Another thing, if you knew any thing about what you're trying to tell the original poster, you'd know that 60-1 ct26 turbochargers are a bad, bad idea.

The ct26 isn't a crap turbo, it just has a poorly designed oiling system.

Did you miss the part where I specifically said "57 trim is usually the safest you *should* go with for a CT26 as they're a crap turbo to try and get big (450+) power with". A turbo with a poor oiling system IS indeed a crap turbo to get big power from. I said BIG power (450+) because as an OEM turbo, it's fine.

Bearings just don't go bad. The original poster could go single tubular manifold, but Im not sure he is ready for such a project yet in his power goals.

Really? They don't go SNAP and bad all of the sudden lol (unless you run without oil or something equally stupid) but on a 17+ year old car, they're old and have much higher probability of going bad (maybe not if DM used new bearings when upgraded). And why not on the tubular manifold without an external WG with a CT26 flange? It's bolt on power, he's looking for power by going with a 57trim. Why would you say don't get one as they're pretty cheap and give decent power for the money?

Well you're edit sucks. If you understood what you *again* were posting, you'd know you were spreading foul information.

I can see where you're coming from as I'm new here but I think your just a hater or had a bad day.

The ct26 is pinned - both compressor housing and turbine housing.

You really can't get the housings clocked off, unless you forget the pins. I'll stand behind Aaron and Driftmotion to say I highly doubt they forgot the alignment pins.

But DM is human and can screw up, they're just unlikely to but it is possible.

Seriously. Is some one playing a joke on me? Ian? Mike? Can I get some help here?

That ct26 pictured is not 180 rotated.

To the original poster:

You need to do a couple of things:

1.) Go to driftmotion and order the soft line kit. This will ensure the oil line and return oil line are machine flat and will create a good sealing surface. Go to Toyota and order a new water line & flange.

2.) If oil gaskets are not included in the soft line kit, order them from Toyota. The gasket on the turbo and block are crucial for proper oil system function.

3.) TORQUE the bolts on the oil flange(s) to the proper torque in the TSRM

4.) Install the turbo charger. Make sure the oil feed banjo bolt in the block is clean, and the port is VISIBLY not plugged. Ensure that the PCV system is in working order and not vented to atmosphere.

5.) Remove the EFI fuse and crank the car over. Verify that oil is coming out of the oil feed port where the banjo bolt would normally be.

6.) Once you've verified that you have oil coming out of the port, install the oil lines (just the feed).

7.) With the EFI fuse still REMOVED, crank the car over again. Verify that oil is coming out of the return line that is NOT bolted to the block.

8.) If you can verify that oil is coming out of the return, bolt the turn line to the block via oil return flange and new gasket.

9.) Crank the car over again. Verify oil pressure on oil pressure gauge.

10.) Install EFI fuse.

11.) Start car. Let idle for 5 - 10 minutes.

12.) Shut the car off. Remove the accordion hose and wiggle the shaft of the turbo. If the turbo has shaft play beyond limits, the turbo is destroyed.

That's good useful info instead of bashing. Jeez dude..

 

[jdub]

There are different models of CT like you said (IE 26 / 12A) and it is possible to get sent back the wrong turbo. It HAS happened. Rarely, but has. As far as getting someone else's turbo, some companies send you back YOURS rebuilt, others send you a different turbo. The thing people don't realize is some turbos these companies get are blown turbos used as a core from a crap car, and are PERMANENTLY out of spec in terms of bearing seat or other things, and WILL blow sooner than if it was the correct spec. The only things replaced are a bored housing, new wheel/bearing/shaft/seals or whatever else. They are replaced on a system out of spec. How do you know they do the right measurements to determine if a bearing seat is in spec or a housing isn't warped and effects something else? You DONT because you send your turbo in and expect to get a good one back. Even a reputable company can do that every now and then, that's all I was saying.

Did you miss the part where I specifically said "57 trim is usually the safest you *should* go with for a CT26 as they're a crap turbo to try and get big (450+) power with". A turbo with a poor oiling system IS indeed a crap turbo to get big power from. I said BIG power (450+) because as an OEM turbo, it's fine.

Really? They don't go SNAP and bad all of the sudden lol (unless you run without oil or something equally stupid) but on a 17+ year old car, they're old and have much higher probability of going bad (maybe not if DM used new bearings when upgraded). And why not on the tubular manifold without an external WG with a CT26 flange? It's bolt on power, he's looking for power by going with a 57trim. Why would you say don't get one as they're pretty cheap and give decent power for the money?

I can see where you're coming from as I'm new here but I think your just a hater or had a bad day.

But DM is human and can screw up, they're just unlikely to but it is possible.

That's good useful info instead of bashing. Jeez dude..

There's a reason you are getting flack from the knowledgeable guys here, but you don't seem to "get it". I'll give you a hint: It's not because anyone of us is a "hater" or "having a bad day".

It's because you post either BS or a bunch of generalized useless crap in the Tech sections. I've tried to tell you that might be ok over at SF...it is not ok here. That is going to stop as of now.

 

[zambini]

MORE SALT IN THE GAME.

sighh... got my lines early today.

they dont fucking fit. here they are, square to the studs, chillin. the damn water nipple WONT EVEN ENTER THE HOUSING.

heres my water port..

and this is as far as i can get the lines on the studs and into the turbo without hitting or forcing anything..

and of course...

i cant get a square in there to see if the studs were put in straight or not. thats the only thing i can think of right now.. they dont look THAT out of whack even if they arent square to the housing. theyd have to look really cockeyed to warrant how far off the water nipple is from the edge of the port.

WHAT THE FUCK GUYS?!:madfawk::madfawk::madfawk::madfawk::madfawk:

 

[boostin300]

I'm telling you man, you got the wrong turbo back or it's clocked 180 off, like I said earlier. Flame me but what else could it be?

 

[zambini]

well well...:nono:

i took the studs out to see if they were bent or what. it dawned on me that the line fitment was SO FAR OFF that it COULDNT be the studs... so i put the damn hardlines ON the flat, studless gasket surface so that the nipple ACTUALLY CLEARED the housing and took a picture:

THESE ARE THE NEW LINES

THESE ARE THE OLD LINES

THE LINES ARE BEING PUSHED AS FAR AS THEY CAN GO in the direction of the stud holes. THIS TURBO ASSEMBLY IS NOT CORRECT in one way or the other... either the studs are in the wrong place, or the inside of the housing cuts in at too much of an angle. something here is WRONG and its not something i can fix.

here is a closeup of the port and the place where the lines are hitting:

WHAT EXACTLY IS WRONG???

edit:

jdub, if you post in this thread again, please respond to me and not boostin300. i need your advice man!

 

[zambini]

:nono:

 

[boostin300]

Give DM a call. Make sure they pay for everything.