WTFBBQ Wastegate???

Saavedro88

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Jan 26, 2007
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Ok so I'm trying to read up on like, everything turbo for when I (hopefully!) do my NA-t later this year I'll know what I'm doing to a certain degree...

But one thing I'm having more and more frustration with is trying to understand what exactly the wastegate does and how it all relates...

I do know that it's basic function is to immediately relieve pressure out of the exhaust so the Turbo isn't slowed down, and I think it's also supposed to help limit your boost??? So are a BOV and a wastgate kinda the same thing but for different sides of the process? Why would you not need a wastegate if you have a divorced down pipe?

Help a noob please! I'm turbically illiterate... Is there a book or something online somewhere I should be reading?
 

ms07s

TORGUE!
Sep 29, 2007
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The wastegate regulates boost. At x-psi it opens and at y-psi it closes. stock is supposed to open around 7ish psi. Thats what a boost controler controls, the wastegate. As far as I know that is its only function. Someone please chime in if my info is wrong.
 

Saavedro88

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Jan 26, 2007
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ms07s;898189 said:
The wastegate regulates boost. At x-psi it opens and at y-psi it closes. stock is supposed to open around 7ish psi. Thats what a boost controler controls, the wastegate. As far as I know that is its only function. Someone please chime in if my info is wrong.



OOOOOoOOoooohhhh...!!11!1!!ONE!! It is alllll becoming clearer....

Well at least a little bit... :biglaugh:

Thanks to both of you! That other thread is a big help too mmber1. Is that the same Doward we have on here?
Couple more questions now...
Trim: I need a more in depth explanation that what was on mmber1's thread...
Why don't more people use a by pass valve if it "keeps the turbo spinning more efficiently than just dumping the excess pressure to the atmosphere."
 

ms07s

TORGUE!
Sep 29, 2007
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Saavedro88;898224 said:
Why don't more people use a by pass valve if it "keeps the turbo spinning more efficiently than just dumping the excess pressure to the atmosphere."

Most people vent atmo for the sound. You should bypass it for performance.
 

Saavedro88

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Jan 26, 2007
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That kinda seems like a duh... people really care that much that everyone ELSE knows they have a turbo? Do recirc.s not make any sound?
 

Motofool

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Oct 16, 2007
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its just muffled like a semi truck or any other poping sound inside a sealed pipe.



Saavedro88;898397 said:
That kinda seems like a duh... people really care that much that everyone ELSE knows they have a turbo? Do recirc.s not make any sound?
 

ms07s

TORGUE!
Sep 29, 2007
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Sure a little but not as loud as atmo. Some people vent atmo because they have switched over to a different air metering system and it doesn't mess with the AFRs anymore so why bother. I vent atmo because my recirc hose blew off on the interstate and haven't replaced the hose yet (I forgot to tighten it back up).:biglaugh:
 

Dan_Gyoba

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Aug 9, 2007
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Even if/when I get around to getting rid of my AFM, I'll probably leave my BOV recirculated. Personally, I like the idea of people not knowing that I have a turbo, since my car still looks like an NA.
 

TurboStreetCar

Formerly Nosechunks
Feb 25, 2006
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Jeez, dont listen to these guys, they have NO clue. The barbecue grills wastegate regulates the flow of propane to the heat element. Its kind of like a fuel pressure regulator on a car. its what threads onto the valve of the propane tank.
 

supra_kid101

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Oct 28, 2007
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nosechunks;898445 said:
Jeez, dont listen to these guys, they have NO clue. The barbecue grills wastegate regulates the flow of propane to the heat element. Its kind of like a fuel pressure regulator on a car. its what threads onto the valve of the propane tank.

Umm lol did I miss something? I was reading about wastegate question then now were on propane regulator?
 

Fozbo

7M Love
Apr 4, 2005
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Wastegates

Exhaust gas from the engine push the blades on the hot side of the turbo, in turn making boost on the compressor (cold side). A wastegate plumbs in between the exhaust gas coming out of the engine and the exhaust gas pushing on the fins of the hot side. The wastegate gets it's vacuum/boost "signal" from the intake manifold via a vacuum line (this is where people install boost controllers, to interfere with the "signal" to get desired boost levels). A wastegate works on a principle of pressure differential; once it sees the right amount of pressure from the intake, the pressure differential will change and the wastegate opens accordingly. This has the effect of limiting the exhaust gas push on the turbine. If the boost signal falls back below where the wastegate is mechanically set to maintain, then the wastegate closes back to allow more of a push on the turbine fins to occur.

There are two basic types of wastegates: internal and external. An external wastegate is usually mounted right on the manifold so as to alleviate the pressure of the exhaust gas. An internal wastegate is mounted within the hot side turbine housing. It actuates a hole that releases the exhaust gas into the exhaust pipe instead of letting it flow to the turbine.

If a wastegate is not present, malfunctioning, or welded shut, and you keep the foot on the gas, the turbo and engine will boost as much pressure as it can create/handle (pop, boom, sputter, knock, thrash goes the engine).

Blow Off Valves

A blow off valve (BOV) or bypass valve works only within the actual intercooler piping / intake track. When a turbo creates pressure, it is sent through the throttle body and into the intake manifold. Once you let off the gas, the throttle body snaps shut and the boost that is coming up the piping slams into the throttle body. The pressurized air has no where to go, so it heads right back to the fins of the compressor on the turbo (this is that "chu chu chu chu" sound you hear as the air bounces back and forth with an improperly tuned BOV). The BOV works on a very similar design as the wastegate with pressure differentials and the such. The BOV will give the air a path to escape through so that it doesn't bounce around on the fins of the delicate turbo.

A BOV can be vented to the atmosphere, or it can be recirculated back into the intake (after the AFM, but before the turbo). When it vents to the atmosphere, you are loosing metered and accounted for air, so the engine is running really rich immediately after a BOV releases. For a stock car, the best thing to do is to reroute the BOV back into the intake. It does muffle the sound of the BOV a bit, but it is better for the engine / tuning sake.

A BOV doesn't actually regulate any sort of boost level (as long as it is working correctly); only the wastegate and your foot can really control boost (when everything is working properly).

Some pics:

This is a diagram of an external wastegate that is routed back into the exhaust pipe:
wastegate.jpg


A real picture of the above setup:
GT35RA02.JPG


This is the backside of the hot side / exhaust turbine of the ct26 with an internal wastegate (notice the trap door thing on the right):
ct2657%20clip.jpg


The internal wastegate is actuated by the round thing on the right side of the turbo via a mechanical steel rod:
ct26web.jpg


This is a BOV that is venting to the atmosphere (on the bottom of the intercooler pipe):
will_neely_04.jpg


This is a BOV that has been recirculated back into the intake:
sm_photo_missing.jpg
 

Saavedro88

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Jan 26, 2007
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nosechunks;898445 said:
Jeez, dont listen to these guys, they have NO clue. The barbecue grills wastegate regulates the flow of propane to the heat element. Its kind of like a fuel pressure regulator on a car. its what threads onto the valve of the propane tank.

OMFG!!! I laughed SO hard!!!

WOW!!!

I suppose I was totally asking for it though. Thanks man! :biglaugh:

Fozbo, thanks for the post, have read all of it yet but I'm workin on it!!
 

Saavedro88

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Jan 26, 2007
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Richmond VA
Hey Fozey... I'm having a hard time understanding that first pic... Looks like there's unburned air going into the wastegate? I don't see anything about that in the description you posted (Which was absolutely awesome btw... THANKS!). Is that just to maintain a positive pressure on the system?



I'd still like to know about DDP's...
 

MassSupra89

Almost done.
Nov 3, 2005
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I believe you're looking at the vacuum line that tells the wastegate when to open when it sees a set pressure. The thin blue line on the top?
 

starscream5000

Senior VIP Member
Aug 23, 2006
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DDP's: Divorced Down Pipes. The purpose of these is to let everyone know when you've hit your target boost. The wastegate opens, thus slowing down the exhaust turbine and compressor side to where it is only spinning so fast to reach the pre-set boost of your choice. The bypassed exhaust gases then flow through the tube and out into the atmosphere pre-cat and pre-muffler. It scare little babies and ricer as well, but personally, I think the sound of a Divorced Down Pipe sounds like shit. ;)
 

shaeff

Kurt is FTMFW x2!!!!
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Mar 30, 2005
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Doward said:
That said, here's a nice glossary *in progress*

A/R: Area/Radius. A/R describes a geometric property of all compressor and turbine housings. Increasing compressor A/R optimizes the performance for low boost applications. Changing turbine A/R has many effects. By going to a larger turbine A/R, the turbo comes up on boost at a higher engine speed, the flow capacity of the turbine is increased and less flow is wastegated, there is less engine backpressure, and engine volumetric efficiency is increased resulting in more overall power.

Absolute Pressure: Absolute pressure is the total pressure exerted by all elements in the system. This includes atmospheric pressure, vacuum created by the throttle blade, and pressurization due to forced induction.

Atmospheric Pressure: Really before understanding absolute pressure, you need to know about atmospheric pressure. The planet is immersed in an ocean of gas. The atmosphere has weight - approximately 14.7 psi (pounds per square inch) @ sea level. As you move to higher elevations, the pressure lessens. Anyone that lives up in the mountains can attest to it, as the air is thinner. This is also why someone in Denver running 15psi is not running the same pressure that I am here in Florida, running 15psi. I will explain this more in pressure ratio.

Blow Off Valve: A blow off valve's primary purpose is to keep your turbo alive through sudden changes in pressure in the intake tract. A blow off valve generally is used in a MAP based system, as the valve dumps the excess pressure to the atmosphere, which would throw off the readings of a closed metered air flow system.

Boost: The term boost generally refers to any pressurization of the intake tract over that of the atmospheric pressure. The problem people don't see, is that an engine is a glorified air pump. Any pressurization that takes place, is due to restriction in the air pump system. Boost is technically the engine's inability to flow the amount of air being forced into it

Bypass Valve: A bypass valve and a blow off valve have the same functions. The difference is the bypass valve is used in a metered air system, as the excess pressure is bled off from the intact tract, through the bypass valve, and dumped after the air flow meter, and before the turbo. The air has already been metered, and then flows through a circuit back into the turbo again. This keeps the turbo spinning more efficiently than just dumping the excess pressure to the atmosphere. If you want maximum spool between shifts, you want to use a bypass valve. Stock, the 87-92 Toyota Supra does not have a blow off valve. It has a bypass valve, which is also known as a Compressor Bypass Valve (CBV).

CHRA: Center Housing Rotating Assembly. The 'meat' of the turbo, minus the exhaust and compressor housings.

Compressor Inlet: This is the point where the atmospheric air enters the turbocharger.

Compressor Outlet: The is the point where the pressurized air leaves the turbocharger.

Compressor (or Flow) Map: Another I will come back to...

Exducer/Inducer: The inducer is the area of the turbine (or compressor wheel) that the air initially comes in contact with. The exducer is the area of the turbine (or compressor wheel) that the air leaves through. These are what let a turbocharger do its job.

Pressure Measurements: There are many measurements used for pressure. PSI is the most common here in the US of A. 1 Bar = 100kPa (kilopascals - kPa) Atmospheric pressure @ sea level is defined as 101.325 kPa, so atmospheric pressure = 1.01325 bar. 1 bar = 14.5 psi - not 14.7 as commonly thought. Bar is also not the standard of SI pressure, that belongs to N/meter^2 (Newtons per meter squared) as I recall.

Pressure Ratio: The pressure ratio that the turbo sees is defined as the absolute outlet pressure, divided by the absolute inlet pressure. This is taken only at the turbo itself - pressure losses due to the intercooler and piping are seperate from what the turbo itself sees!

Pressurization: Simply increasing the force of air over that of atmospheric force.

Trim: Trim is the inducer squared divided by the exducer squared. It is a ratio, and therefore, a 50 trim T3 and 50 trim T4 wheel are two different beasts!

Turbocharger: A device used to pressurize the intake manifold system of an automotive engine. Energy from the exhaust is used to rotating a turbine sitting in the exhaust, that is connected via a shaft to the compressor sitting in the intake's air flow. As the exhaust wheel spins, the compressor wheel also spins, force feeding air into the system. The center unit that contains the shaft and wheels is known as the CHRA.

Vacuum: A condition where absolute pressure is lower than the atmospheric pressure.

Wastegate: A device used to control how much energy from the exhaust is fed into the turbocharger. The wastegate's job is to divert some exhaust energy from the turbine wheel. This can be done with an internal wastegate (integrated into the exhaust housing), or external wastegate (non-integrated into the exhaust housing).
 

TurboStreetCar

Formerly Nosechunks
Feb 25, 2006
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Saave: i do what i can, corny stupid jokes are my specialty.

Fozbo: thats the cleanest CT26 ive even seen in my like. did someone like buy that like brand new from Toyota? 3-4 grand if IIRC.