Where's the MAF PRO Buzz

SPD TRP

Formerly 3rdtimearound
Apr 12, 2005
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Katy Texas
Haven't heard much about the Maf Pro in quite awhile, from users or those about to jump aboard.

Is it just me, or has the novelty worn off, or did I just miss something?

Sure hope not because I am about to install mine.

Wayne
 

born2drv

Banned
Nov 1, 2005
1,199
0
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Burbank, CA
I wrote a thread about it but no one responded. Basically the tuner shop I've been geting work done at (and they work on a lot of supras) said that the MAFTPRO wasn't all that great because it could not hold a tune. That they would dyno it and all would be good, but then every week or so the guys were always coming back to get adjustments. Mind you he said out of 5 installs he did, none were a mk3 supra, so I don't know.
 

SPD TRP

Formerly 3rdtimearound
Apr 12, 2005
526
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Katy Texas
Thanks for the info.

I remember when it was all the rave, with a new post regarding its viability coming in pretty frequently.

But lately not much.

Don't know if people are not happy with it or if it is working perfectly and there is no need to post anything about it---no problems.

Got used to seeing Turbobob and the good Dr. in the maf pro forums.

That thing about it "not holding a tune" is the first time I have heard that one.

Wayne
 

MKIIINA

Destroyer of Turbos
Mar 30, 2005
1,825
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Plano, TX
a local guy just installed it and was less than pleased over all. it seems like a powerful system, easy install, but the fit finish and quality wasnt there. {shrug} i personally went the vpc route so well see.
 

born2drv

Banned
Nov 1, 2005
1,199
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Burbank, CA
Ya it's the first time I ever heard it as well, no one ever complained about it here. They told me they only installed it on 5 DSM's no supra's yet.... and that everyone that used the MAFTPRO removed it and went with a standalone system instead because of that problem.

But a good stand alone is like $2k+ ... I think I'd rather try the MAFTPRO first since everyone here seems to be happy with it.

I just had my AEM wideband installed, bigger turbo, etc... and throwing a lot of codes. Once I get those resolved I'll probably order one from the doctor.
 

greg88

...
May 14, 2005
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Lowell, Arkansas, United States
I actually gained 40hp with the MAFT Pro. It just gave a better tune I suppose. However, everyone who worked with the MAFT Pro at the local speed shop hated it. Choice quotes:

"By engineers, for engineers."
"What was wrong with the stock set-up?"
"They don't make a standalone for your car?"
"It ain't no small block Chevy!":biglaugh:

It eventually worked out though.
 

SPD TRP

Formerly 3rdtimearound
Apr 12, 2005
526
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Katy Texas
jkbmkiii said:
Mine has been on the car for over a month same tune, no problems there.
Still throwing a couple of codes, but everything is working great.

Have you gotton the support you feel you needed to resolve the code problem?

Probably shouldn't try to tune for hp while throwing codes. Just my .02.

Wayne
 

supralover2000

12.8 and dropping..
Apr 4, 2005
132
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Long Island, NY
www.mk3.us
Actually if you look at Malloynx he has been running his for a few months now trouble free. Also if you follow the threads regarding the Maftpro or any other tuning device, you will find a common theme..People expecting for the next great unit to solve all of there problems! Unfortunately 99% of the time, the issues are not tide to the unit, but rather to the owner who is trying to get great results while skipping key steps, such as making sure that the car is sound, with all sensors and parts working properly, before attempting to add another variable (which they are also unfamiliar with) into the mix! Not enough people take the time to understand the basics, yet they are more than eager to jump into a unit which requires at the very minimum, some a basic knowledge of how and why the car uses certain sensors and parts. The "Pro" in Maftpro implies that the user should have some basic knowledge of how their car works before attempting to use the unit. I don't claim to know everything about my car, but I have had the maftpro for a few months and have read all of the supporting documention, which has allowed me to make good use of the unit on a friends car. So here is my review of the unit thus far:
Here is link for a post I just put on the Fullthrottletech.com site.... I guess I might aswell just copy the post here too (for the lazy folks that don't want to click on the link)
http://www.fullthrottletech.com/showthread.php?p=10009#post10009

Gotta love the Pro!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I just wanted to add to the praises of the MAFTPRO.
Unfortunately the car is not mine (I still haven't found the time to assemble my motor and get it going), but I get to tune just the same. The Car is a 1989 Toyota Supra which was rolled out of the dealership by its current owner! The current power setup goes as follows:

Stock 7mgte motor with HKS metal head gasket. 3.0L inline six cylinder motor
HKS intercooler and pipe kit.
SP67 bolt-on(to stock manifold) turbo kit. which is a 67mm compressor wheel. 17psi watesgate spring.
Delphi 580cc injectors at 38 psi static fuel pressure at idle.
Aeromotive adjustible fuel pressure regulator.
Innovative LC-1 wideband kit.
Maftpro working hand in hand with the stock ECU to keep the car singing and the wheels chirping.
So far during our tuning session we have been able to get the a/f's to mid 14's at idle and fluctuation between 13.9 and 15.1 while crusing. at WOT the Stock ECU is notorious for dumping huge amounts of fuel, so we have tuned it from 9.3 a/f now up to 11.6 a/f via the of the AFR tracking and logging with tuner pro. I do have to learn a bit more about the Gain feature for the AFR Tracking because I believe that having it set to 4, might be what is keeping it from nailing down one specific a/f. Maybe if I turn it down it will be more stable. During the AFR Tracking at WOT the a/f's seem to be anywhere between 10.7 to 12.1, while the settings are for 11.5 a/f across the board.

One of the coolest features of this unit is that when you use both the tunerpro and the maftpro together, you can monitor and log data and also make changes "on the fly". I also make use the tunerpro's ability to make an excel lay out showing the whole log. Im hoping that maybe after one more tuning session we get to go back to the dyno and beat his last 425whp run! stay tuned for the results. Oh and speaking of dynos, this Wideband is worth its weight in gold! It has saved us a lot of money from not having to go to a dyno just to see how the tune was. Plus we can also make the proper changes along the whole rpm and load range, as oppossed to just the WOT map which is all we would get to do at a dyno.
 

SPD TRP

Formerly 3rdtimearound
Apr 12, 2005
526
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Katy Texas
Well, let me start by thanking you for contributing your thoughts to this post.

Next, you as well as myself, have been following all the pages and pages of post in regards to the maf pro. I looked forward to wading through the pages of posts looking for that "kernal of viable information" sort of speak.

Thinking it was for me, and not saying it is not, I jumped aboard and dished out the cash for the XD16, LC1, and maf pro. But I have noticed a sort of trend, not much if any "buzz" on the forums about this tuner aid.

I am much of your opinion, the car must have zero issues before throwing something else into the mix. That being said, mine idles smooth as silk and throws no codes. Always starts up cold or hot, no fuel pump issues, runs cool and never overheats. It always, and I mean always, rises to the occasion and never fails to perform. My only concern is the problems some guys have been with their CEL throwing codes, which may evolove into drivability issues. I check the boards often and wonder why so many are having weird little querks with starting, idling-up and down, stalling, and so forth. Could it be poor maint. from previous owner, poor maint. from present owner, not understanding the nature of the beast, or what.

Please understand this is not meant to put anyone down nor raise anyone up, merely wondering about what happened to the rave this is maf pro.


Wayne
 

NJsupraA70

Ex-Supra Owner
Sep 18, 2005
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NJ
born2drv said:
I wrote a thread about it but no one responded. Basically the tuner shop I've been geting work done at (and they work on a lot of supras) said that the MAFTPRO wasn't all that great because it could not hold a tune. That they would dyno it and all would be good, but then every week or so the guys were always coming back to get adjustments. Mind you he said out of 5 installs he did, none were a mk3 supra, so I don't know.


could not hold a tune? That is ridiculous. Time for you to find a new "tuner shop". lol. :)

when I still had my car my tune was perfect. Using the afr tracking and a basic tune my a/f's would always be between 11.5-11.9, NOT ONCE did that change.. I can honestly say It was the single best investment I ever made for the car. Second, I had no codes, so you guys that are still getting engine codes probably did not install in properly, or your cars are having other issues non related to the pro. Mike Malloy and myself have had nothing but great success with this unit. IMHO besides going standalone there is no better unit out there for the 7M.
 
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C

cnewingham

Guest
This is what I was getting at when I choose to buy the map-ecu instead this time around. I jumped on board with the original maft when all seemed great and then within a few months the rave stopped and issues evolved. I expect issues as that is part of the game but the inconsistant a/f's and tune was not acceptable to me. I spent quite a fews hours on the dyno not to mention the $$$ it cost and a lot of street tuning and my car was in tip top running cond. with all supporting mods. I am still contemplating on picking up the maftpro as I like the many options avail. such as a/f tracking and boost controller but right now I have the map-ecu and an avcr which will do the job until all bugs can be worked out of the maftpro, however I may never make that switch over.
 

SPD TRP

Formerly 3rdtimearound
Apr 12, 2005
526
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Katy Texas
Thanks for your input, as I would like to see all those that have it working flawlessly, but by the same token, those that may be having some difficulty, that way we can assist each other and overcome any issues that may arise.

Where is Turbobob adnd the good Dr., I would value their feedback.

Wayne
 

drjonez

Supramania Contributor
Mar 31, 2005
3,061
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the motor city
www.4cefed.com
the good doctor is busy....far too much going on...

anyway, suffice to say that in the MKIII "community" things come and go- the novelty and "newness" of the MAFT pro has worn off....couple that with the pseudo-high price of entry and you have something that many people want but few can afford (even though it does a tremendous amount of things for the price...).

i'll answer specific questions later tonight...
 

shaeff

Kurt is FTMFW x2!!!!
Staff member
Super Moderator
Mar 30, 2005
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personally, i don't think the price is that high. save $50/week for 4 weeks, and you've got enough for the basic startup unit. that's not bad AT ALL!

-shaeff
 

miekedmr

mkiii in hibernation
Jul 12, 2005
513
2
18
Upstate NY
NJsupraA70 said:
could not hold a tune? That is ridiculous. Time for you to find a new "tuner shop". lol. :)

No it's not. The MAFT Pro is a piggy back, right? It just fakes the KV signal.

The stock ECU adjusts the fuel as it pleases based on O2 readout, it can make its own adjustments to put fuel back closer to stock.
If you keep using a piggyback to get the AFR back to the way you want it via KV signal, eventually the ECU will reach its correction limit and won't correct anymore, and voila. But then if your ECU gets reset... the fuel will be way out of whack until it adjusts back to its limits where you want it.
Maybe disconnecting the stock O2 sensor will make him stop 'losing his tune'? Or maybe his MAFT Pro is just not set up right?

I could easily be way off, so correct me, but it's definitely not ridiculous to have problems 'holding a tune' when the method of adjustment is changing a signal into an ECU that is designed to change its tune.

Ahh, I see the MAFT-Pro is supposed to make continuous adjustments in real time to keep the target AFR, based on its own 02 input. Maybe his AFR tracking is not set up right..
 
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drjonez

Supramania Contributor
Mar 31, 2005
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the motor city
www.4cefed.com
miekedmr said:
No it's not. The MAFT Pro is a piggy back, right? It just fakes the KV signal.

The stock ECU adjusts the fuel as it pleases based on O2 readout, it can make its own adjustments to put fuel back closer to stock.
If you keep using a piggyback to get the AFR back to the way you want it via KV signal, eventually the ECU will reach its correction limit and won't correct anymore, and voila. But then if your ECU gets reset... the fuel will be way out of whack until it adjusts back to its limits where you want it.
Maybe disconnecting the stock O2 sensor will make him stop 'losing his tune'? Or maybe his MAFT Pro is just not set up right?

I could easily be way off, so correct me, but it's definitely not ridiculous to have problems 'holding a tune' when the method of adjustment is changing a signal into an ECU that is designed to change its tune.

Ahh, I see the MAFT-Pro is supposed to make continuous adjustments in real time to keep the target AFR, based on its own 02 input. Maybe his AFR tracking is not set up right..

the issue is simple: if your tune changes, you did NOT tune closed loop to satisfiy Vf.
 

SPD TRP

Formerly 3rdtimearound
Apr 12, 2005
526
0
0
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Katy Texas
drjonez said:
the good doctor is busy....far too much going on...

anyway, suffice to say that in the MKIII "community" things come and go- the novelty and "newness" of the MAFT pro has worn off....couple that with the pseudo-high price of entry and you have something that many people want but few can afford (even though it does a tremendous amount of things for the price...).

i'll answer specific questions later tonight...

Give us a shout when you are available for some Q & A time.

I have a couple specific questions for you.

Thanks for chiming in Doc.

Wayne
 

turbobob

New Member
Aug 15, 2005
196
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Near Detroit
Perhaps we should plan a Q&A session with Jones, and me.

I just returned from the Buick nationals in Bowling Green, we had a tech session that filled a decent sized room at the Holiday Inn.

I and Mike L. were on the panel, along with Harry from Precision Turbo, Julio from Alky Control, and Lance from F.A.S.T.

The Translator Pro and Gen-II questions mostly revolved around integrating the Pro system and methanol injection. There were no questions related to tune drifting.....

So, I'm all for it, lets get it together.

Bob
 

dbsupra90

toonar
Apr 1, 2005
2,374
0
0
indiucky
you can change part throttle all day long and the ecu is gonna fight against it and change it to what it wants. regardless if you are using maft, maftpro, map ecu, vpc, afc, etc. you can monitor Vf to see what the ecu is doing and make your settings as close to 2.5V as possible. that's really all you can do.
personally, i dont care anyway. i'm either at 10-15% throttle or i'm at 75%+. you can blow up a motor in a hurry running 50% under boost since the ecu is gonna make efforts to keep it around 14.7:1 this is regardless of what piggyback you use, or running the stock ecu alone.