What suspension/brake mods for street/road course?

[MaverickA70]

Hi! i have an '87 turbo with a rebuilt 7m. I have a 2jzge that will I probably swap in next winter(na-t of course) with hopes of a solid 450ish whp. I've got stock brakes, full interior weight, and bilstein struts on stock springs. I cruise some twisty back roads with some friends twice a month or so, and Hallett raceway, an internationally recognized road course track, is less than 3 hours from me.

This begs the question of what works well on the track, and on the street as i drive this car a lot. I have another car, but i only use it when i have to. My stock brakes are getting kind of spongy, so SS lines are a must. I'd like to know if its worth it to replace my brakes with stock-spec components or upgrade to another setup. I've heard of converting to cobra 13" rotors and 2 piston calipers, and i've heard of the NP kits for z32 brakes as well. Anyone have some input on this? Keep in mind, this will be a full interior, full weight car. I'm also in school so money is there, but not a whole lot of it :icon_razz:

As far as suspension components go, is it worth it to stick with the bilsteins and pair them with some aftermarket springs? or should i save up for coilovers? I figure i will also get better sway bars or at the very least end links. Which is more necessary to upgrade, front or rear sb's? i dont mind an oversteer tendency if its not too crazy, but i can't stand excessive understeer :aigo:

Also, are rear traction arms/toe links worth the gain for my goals? And on the subject of poly bushings, which ones are the most important and will affect my handling more?

Thanks in advance for your assistance, and if you have any specific questions about my setup or my goals, by all means ask!

 

[MaverickA70]

Any thoughts on this?
I've got a bunch of F body friends that think they are hot shit with their live axles when we cruise back roads :biglaugh:

 

[Cz.]

This begs the question of what works well on the track, and on the street as i drive this car a lot. I have another car, but i only use it when i have to. My stock brakes are getting kind of spongy, so SS lines are a must. I'd like to know if its worth it to replace my brakes with stock-spec components or upgrade to another setup. I've heard of converting to cobra 13" rotors and 2 piston calipers, and i've heard of the NP kits for z32 brakes as well. Anyone have some input on this? Keep in mind, this will be a full interior, full weight car. I'm also in school so money is there, but not a whole lot of it :icon_razz:

Stock brakes aren't very good if you're going to be tracking the car. The cobra brake conversion is the one that was made by one of the members here right? It's definetly an upgrade. Don't know much about the nightpager kit but if Z32 brakes are that much better than maybe it's worth looking into. The cobra conversion is probably the "bang for the buck" upgrade. You might also want to check the vendor ARZ since they sell quality aftermarket brake kits.

As far as suspension components go, is it worth it to stick with the bilsteins and pair them with some aftermarket springs? or should i save up for coilovers? I figure i will also get better sway bars or at the very least end links. Which is more necessary to upgrade, front or rear sb's? i dont mind an oversteer tendency if its not too crazy, but i can't stand excessive understeer :aigo:

I would stay with the bilsteins, if you get higher spring rates later on you can get them revalved. Even after the revalve and higher spring rates it will probably ride better than most coilovers and end up being a bit cheaper too.
Don't know too much about the sway bars, I would just upgrade both. Whiteline sways are the thickest, they also have rear bar adjustability.

Also, are rear traction arms/toe links worth the gain for my goals? And on the subject of poly bushings, which ones are the most important and will affect my handling more?

Traction arms are more for dragging as they decrease wheel hop. The other rods will allow you more flexibilty to adjust suspension settings. Since most of them will have poly bushings or heim joints you will take the "slop" out of the suspension by uprading from the 20+ year old rubber bushings you have now.
Same with the other bushings. If you're going to go through the trouble of changing them, you minus well do them all at once. You'll probably see more postive handling if you update all the bushings rather than get some suspension arms.

Thanks in advance for your assistance, and if you have any specific questions about my setup or my goals, by all means ask!

 

[Poodles]

Stock brakes are sorely lacking when you start pushing hard. The nightpager setup is expensive and IMHO poorly designed. I'd go with the arz's wilwood setup if I could afford it.

The rest of the suspension fall down to fixing what's worn (check bushings and fasteners) and then replacing components to figure out a decent system.

I liked my stock springs/kyb GR2's with whiteline swaybars. When I went to the semi-coilover setup I have now I think it might be a bit too stiff, but I didn't get to drive it long before I parked it.

 

[Mastapip]

Here's my 2 cents

Shocks - Keep the bilsteins and get some new springs like H&R's. Super stiff, but you can still do every day driving on them. (This is what I have btw)

Brakes - I've seen Wilwood 4 piston kits on ebay for ~750-800$. Big Zavs is a friend of mine, and he bought one, and its the real deal. If you want to upgrade all four brakes, (and you can still find NP stuff), then put z32 brakes in the back or Mk4 TT brakes. Of course with big brakes, you'll need bigger wheels/tires, like 17 or 18 inch.

Sway Bars - I did a lot of research before I bought mine, and there was a dude somewhere on these forums who did stress tests on the bars to see which were the stiffest. Whitelines is stiffest in the front, Tanabe is stiffest in the rear (which is the combo I went with). They are both roughly 100% stiffer than stock.

 

[Poodles]

Well, he can keep the stock springs and just get sway bars to help in the corners (allows the car to ride a lot nicer).

Mixing and maching sway bars is IMHO not a good idea unless you know what you're doing and can engineer the entire system.

 

[MaverickA70]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Big-...ptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories

^this looks like a winner to me, and its a pretty good price. I've already got 17's on the car, so i guess i'll save up and get these.

I suppose the plan of action is to start replacing my old bushings with poly/new rubber and get a pair of sways. Afterwards i'll get some H & R springs. Does anyone know if they are linear or progressive? i've read that i should avoid progressive springs on a mk3 because of the car's 'rising rate' suspension design.

Thanks again for the input.

 

[Poodles]

Crossdrilled rotors FTL...

 

[tErbo b00st]

Why does everyone recommend the stiffest sway bars possible? Sway bars decrease available grip, but make the car corner flatter. Flatter does not equal better handling in all cases...especially when considering sway bars.

 

[Poodles]

Go take an S curve fast with stock suspension and tell me that again

 

[TheNewRed]

Why does everyone recommend the stiffest sway bars possible? Sway bars decrease available grip, but make the car corner flatter. Flatter does not equal better handling in all cases...especially when considering sway bars.

Side to side weight transfer is inhibited which makes for a more in-control feeling. Its going to tighten things up and help out the coil springs a bit to(more evenly distributes loads at every corner). it helps get rid of that cadillac sway:biglaugh: for our cars this is an enormus benifit

Ill be going with the ST set that HPfreaks have for sale. Its the best value and the rear is adjustable. They also have Tanabe springs for our cars, i havent seen them used as much or if at all for that case. Does anyone have any info on how well these perform or feel on the car, i like the fact that it only drops the car 3/4" in the rear ?

I thought the whitline front is adjustable but im not sure?

 

[Mastapip]

Well, he can keep the stock springs and just get sway bars to help in the corners (allows the car to ride a lot nicer).

Mixing and maching sway bars is IMHO not a good idea unless you know what you're doing and can engineer the entire system.

I had stock springs on Bilsteins, with sway bars upgraded... Lemme tell ya, new springs were by far the best suspension upgrade I've gotten so far. IMHO stock springs are rubbish for road racing. I personally couldn't tell much difference between stock and upgraded sways. I didn't really "feel" the difference until i changed the springs out.

As far as mixing and matching the sway bars, I should have clarified that the reason i went with this setup (aside from being the stiffest ones) is that they have about the same stiffness overall, so when used together, the front is not any stiffer than the back. They have roughly the same thickness, and it seemed like the best choice.

The new red - All Whitelines bars are adjustable, and they come with new custom endlinks. When you take that into account, their price is pretty sweet (considering some people here charge $100 per new set of endlinks)

 

[Poodles]

The original whiteline swaybars aren't adjustable (like the ones on IJ's car which was the prototype car).

The rear bar doesn't come with new endlinks and I didn't replace mine (stock plastic endlinks) as I'd rather them break then the tab that they mount to.

The reason you don't want such a heavy bar in back is because of the forces involved. Less weight back there so it's not needed. If you run stiffer springs you usually run softer swaybars to compensate (or heavier sways with soft springs). Its a system.

 

[tErbo b00st]

Go take an S curve fast with stock suspension and tell me that again

You may "feel" quicker through the turn, but you do in fact have less grip

Side to side weight transfer is inhibited which makes for a more in-control feeling. Its going to tighten things up and help out the coil springs a bit to(more evenly distributes loads at every corner). it helps get rid of that cadillac sway:biglaugh: for our cars this is an enormus benifit

It doesn't more evenly distribute the load of the car, it actually transmits more load to the already loaded up outside tire. This is how it gives less body roll

 

[Poodles]

You may "feel" quicker through the turn, but you do in fact have less grip



It doesn't more evenly distribute the load of the car, it actually transmits more load to the already loaded up outside tire. This is how it gives less body roll

You're leaving out suspension geometry and weight transfer.