what kind of oil for the R154

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mkIIIman089

Supramania Contributor
Mar 30, 2005
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OK.

You should only use Redline MT-90, you can also use 75W-90NS if you like. The latter has no friction modifiers what-so-ever. You can get them from Summit or if you look around you could find a private local auto parts store that stocks Redline products.

Oh, and Mobil 1 is overpriced junk because it's not a real synthetic, and you shouldn't use it because it will prevent your synchros from working properly. In addition that will cause premature wear and you'll be replacing them before you know it.

That's what you all wanted to hear right? Wouldn't want to upset all the experts.
 

Poodles

I play with fire
Jul 22, 2006
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Few things...

- Stock fill is 3.2 quarts, 3 isn't enough
- Mobil 1 is overpriced for what it is, there are FAR better oils on the market for the price, and there are better hydrocracked oils for cheaper. Try reading the oil section of this forum instead of spouting nonsense.

I bought my MT90 from Summit cause they're fast and you get a spiffy hat :D
 

NgoFcukinWay

Formerly Got Boost?
Apr 3, 2005
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Poodles;1160094 said:
Few things...

- Stock fill is 3.2 quarts, 3 isn't enough
- Mobil 1 is overpriced for what it is, there are FAR better oils on the market for the price, and there are better hydrocracked oils for cheaper. Try reading the oil section of this forum instead of spouting nonsense.

I bought my MT90 from Summit cause they're fast and you get a spiffy hat :D

Where can i get 0.2 quarts? lol I don't really want to have 0.8 quarts of MT-90 just sitting around not being used. That would bug the mess out of me.
 

jdub

Official SM Expert: Motor Oil, Lubricants & Fil
SM Expert
Feb 10, 2006
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mkIIIman089;1160043 said:
That's what you all wanted to hear right? Wouldn't want to upset all the experts.


Use Mobil 1 all you like...they even make a friction modifier you can add. More is better, right? And you can keep adding to a bunch of lying scumbags executive bonuses, cause Mobil 1 is easy to get, right? I hear adding a pint of salt water to Mobil 1 in the tranny does wonders for the synchros...give it a try ;)

There are a couple alternatives to Red Line that don't contain friction modifiers. You just have to pay attention vs spouting off.
 

Poodles

I play with fire
Jul 22, 2006
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NgoFcukinWay;1160100 said:
Where can i get 0.2 quarts? lol I don't really want to have 0.8 quarts of MT-90 just sitting around not being used. That would bug the mess out of me.

Would you underfill your engine? Small price to pay for a properly functioning tranny...
 

SupraMario

I think it was the google
Mar 30, 2005
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NgoFcukinWay;1160100 said:
Where can i get 0.2 quarts? lol I don't really want to have 0.8 quarts of MT-90 just sitting around not being used. That would bug the mess out of me.

Get an LSD, and another quart and fill that sucker up.:biglaugh:
 

AJ'S 88NA

New Member
Jul 26, 2007
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jdub;1160116 said:
Use Mobil 1 all you like...they even make a friction modifier you can add. More is better, right? And you can keep adding to a bunch of lying scumbags executive bonuses, cause Mobil 1 is easy to get, right? I hear adding a pint of salt water to Mobil 1 in the tranny does wonders for the synchros...give it a try ;)

There are a couple alternatives to Red Line that don't contain friction modifiers. You just have to pay attention vs spouting off.
I've heard that about salt water too Jdub, that's readily available in Florida too :)
 

shenronzero

spitfire
Oct 19, 2007
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thanks for the input guys... really appreciate the info... BTW I did the hard part tonight, I switched out the auto brake pedal and added the manual brake pedal, the clutch pedal and the clutch master so now all that crap is out of the way all i have to do is drop the auto and put in the 5-speed in.
 

NgoFcukinWay

Formerly Got Boost?
Apr 3, 2005
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Poodles;1160133 said:
Would you underfill your engine? Small price to pay for a properly functioning tranny...

D34DC311;1160183 said:
Get an LSD, and another quart and fill that sucker up.:biglaugh:

oh yeah...I could do that. Been meaning to change the fluids in that thing. The MT-90 will work fine for the LSD? Don't want any problems if it doesn't.
 

mkIIIman089

Supramania Contributor
Mar 30, 2005
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jdub;1160116 said:
Use Mobil 1 all you like...they even make a friction modifier you can add. More is better, right? And you can keep adding to a bunch of lying scumbags executive bonuses, cause Mobil 1 is easy to get, right? I hear adding a pint of salt water to Mobil 1 in the tranny does wonders for the synchros...give it a try ;)

There are a couple alternatives to Red Line that don't contain friction modifiers. You just have to pay attention vs spouting off.

I don't really know what I said to provoke this little rant, sounds like you have some sort of personal beef with "the man" at Mobil. Maybe jealousy? I dunno. If you think that Redline is somehow a more trustworthy company because it's harder to get and it says "racing" on every non API or ACEA rated product they make, think again. As to why you got off on some tangent about putting in additional LS additive and... salt water jokes... I can't come up with any explanation at all.

Before your head grows any bigger I'd like to point out that my "spouting off" started off as me stating quite plainly what my opinion is/what I would use in my car. After being repeatedly attacked by a bunch of interweb tuners who only know what they know because some other uneducated misinformed goon said so on a forum, I will defend what I said with the same tone with which I was challenged.

I have a pretty good handle on most of these lubricant basics, and what I've come to find is that in the real world it really doesn't make very much difference and just about anything you put in will have your car lasting hundreds of thousands of miles.
 

Rennat

5psi...? haha
Dec 6, 2005
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MT-90 isnt for Diffs and LSD... its manual transmission fluid.

http://www.redlineoil.com/products_gearlubricants.asp?productID=46&subCategoryID=17&categoryID=7

if you really dont want the extra fluid, throw it away. or give it to a friend so that way he can use it...



mkiiiman - if what you say is true, i should go out and run wal-mart supertech oil and never change my filter then... bullcrap.
what you put in your car, truck, boat, atv... it all has a huge difference, im just sorry you feel like being raped on the mobil 1 "crap" you buy...

but i would be careful what you say to Jdub... cause he'll get the facts to make you look like a retard. haha
 

jdub

Official SM Expert: Motor Oil, Lubricants & Fil
SM Expert
Feb 10, 2006
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mkIIIman089;1160447 said:
I don't really know what I said to provoke this little rant, sounds like you have some sort of personal beef with "the man" at Mobil. Maybe jealousy? I dunno. If you think that Redline is somehow a more trustworthy company because it's harder to get and it says "racing" on every non API or ACEA rated product they make, think again. As to why you got off on some tangent about putting in additional LS additive and... salt water jokes... I can't come up with any explanation at all.

Maybe it was this:

mkIIIman089;1159703 said:
I would just use Mobil 1 Synthetic 75W-90. The best race cars in the world use it, and its super easy to find.

Followed by this:

mkIIIman089;1160043 said:
OK. You should only use Redline MT-90, you can also use 75W-90NS if you like. The latter has no friction modifiers what-so-ever. You can get them from Summit or if you look around you could find a private local auto parts store that stocks Redline products.
Oh, and Mobil 1 is overpriced junk because it's not a real synthetic, and you shouldn't use it because it will prevent your synchros from working properly. In addition that will cause premature wear and you'll be replacing them before you know it.

That's what you all wanted to hear right? Wouldn't want to upset all the experts.

A smart-ass post...it's pretty obvious who you are referring to. Problem is, that's all you got...you resort to innuendo and personal insults to "prove" your point. Jealousy? Take a look in the mirror and you'll see exactly what it looks like.



mkIIIman089;1160447 said:
Before your head grows any bigger I'd like to point out that my "spouting off" started off as me stating quite plainly what my opinion is/what I would use in my car. After being repeatedly attacked by a bunch of interweb tuners who only know what they know because some other uneducated misinformed goon said so on a forum, I will defend what I said with the same tone with which I was challenged.

And I don't like being called an "uneducated goon"...again, it's pretty obvious who you are referring to since I'm the Lubrication SME for SM. You started this "tone" and you are dealing with a guy that has many times the experience of being a prick than you do son. You're a "wannabe" punk that only in your wildest dream will ever achieve what this "uneducated goon" has.



mkIIIman089;1160447 said:
I have a pretty good handle on most of these lubricant basics, and what I've come to find is that in the real world it really doesn't make very much difference and just about anything you put in will have your car lasting hundreds of thousands of miles.

Actually you don't have any real handle on anything except your opinion...no facts, just "experience". Here's a quote from an industry white paper on Manual Transmission Lubricants (MTL)...not that you'll take to time to learn (you have your opinion after all), but maybe some of the other "uneducated goons" will read and gain some real knowledge vs. your condescending spew.


Most GL5 differential and GL4 Manual Transmission oils contain sulfur-phosphorous EP packages. GL4 does NOT refer to any specific viscosity, but it refers to a level of AW/EP protection for the gearing and bearings in a transmission. GL4-rated oils contain about 40% to 60% of the EP additives that GL5 oils contain. Therefore, both MT and Differential lubes contain the same EP additives, just in different strengths or additive ratios.

Both differential and manual transmission fluids use chemical compounds that subdue or inhibit the corrosive effects of sulfur and phosphorous such as calcium, magnesium, boron, potassium or other basic compounds. Emulsifiers, corrosion and rust inhibitors also are included to do their respective jobs.

GL5 differential lubes use friction modifiers to reduce mechanical and fluid friction and add some anti-shudder friction modifier for limited slip, both very different chemical compounds.

GL4 manual transmission fluids use a different friction modifier for synchro engagement, a modifier that does NOT contain the same Friction Modifier chemicals as differential lubes.

Most manual transmission "specific" fluids (GL4) contain about 40% to 60% of the EP additive of differential lubes (GL5) with inactive or buffered sulphurs. GL4 has come to infer a gear lube with these percentages of EP additive. The exception of course is ATF fluid used in some of the newer transmissions. Manual Transmission fluids use a different friction modifier specifically designed for synchro engagement, a modifier that does NOT contain the same chemical compounds as do differential lubes.

Ever since the synchromesh-type fluids appeared on the scene (such as the GM Synchromesh fluid), drivers have had better shifting due to better synchro engagement, attributed to the specialized friction modifier used in these lubes. This specialized friction modifier is better for metallic and composite synchros in terms of shifting and life.

A synchromesh fluid usually refers to a specialized fluid that contains special friction modification additives for transmissions that use mechanical synchronizer assemblies; those synchronizer assemblies may be made of carbon fiber composites, sintered metal, brass/bronze, or steel-steel materials.

You also have to consider the viscosity of the fluid that the transmission was designed for. The spectrum now ranges from ATF to 75W90 viscosities and therefore a synchromesh GL4 Manual Transmission Lubricant (MTL) can be any viscosity from 7.0 cSt (ATF equivalent viscosity) to a 75W90 type viscosity of approx. 14.5 cSt, and contains special friction modification additives for synchronizer assembly engagement, brass/bronze, or steel-steel materials.

Current MTL viscosities are:

1. ATF Series - Type; 6.5 to 8.5 cSt (Equivalent ATF viscosity; Note: ATF additive package is weak compared to most GL4's)
2. Synchromesh Series -Type; 9.3 - 9.5 cSt (such as Amsoils MTF, Texaco's MTL, Pennzoil's Synchromesh, GM and Chrysler's Synchromesh)
3. 75W85 Series-Type; 9.8 to 11.5 cSt ( Red Line's MTL, RP's Synchromax LT, Nissan's MTL, Honda MTL, Castrol Syntorq LT)
4. 75W90 Series-Type; 12.8 to 14.5 cSt (Amsoil's MTG, Red Line's MT-90).

MTL specific lubes we're developed for manual tranny's and transaxles, and not for differentials or industrial gear boxes. A differential lube may not kill your tranny, but it is not the optimum lube for it. A differential 75W90 (GL5) usually has a higher viscosity than does an MTL in the same advertised weight. Synchromesh Manual Transmission lubes were developed specifically for manual transmissions and transaxles, and not for differentials or industrial gear boxes.

Many if not most GL5 fluids rated for differentials may also be rated as MT-1. Some manufacturers, such as Amsoil, state the following:

“Recommended for use in differentials, manual transmissions and other gear applications requiring any of the following specifications: API GL-5, MT-1, MIL-PRF-2105E, Dana SHAES 234 (Formerly Eaton PS-037), Mack GO-J, or the differential (hypoid) gear oil specifications from all domestic and foreign manufacturers such as GM, Ford and Daimler Chrysler. Can also be used in axles where an API GL-4 lubricant is recommended.”

This MT-1 rating refers to use in heavy duty truck transmissions, and as such, does NOT necessarily mean that this fluid will function properly in a light truck or car synchromesh transmission.


It's amazing that this thread in the lube section seems to follow along:
http://www.supramania.com/forums/showthread.php?t=44485


One last note: the TSRM allows for a GL-4 or GL-5 gear oil in the R154 or W58 trannys. The problem is you don't know what percentage of EP additives a specific GL-5 oil contains. RP Max Gear is a case in point...the guys that have used it reported an initial improvement (freed up synchros?), then had rough/grinding shifts later. It's a really simple thing to avoid...instead of being a guinea pig and using a gear oil that's "really easy to find", how about using one that's a GL-4 that is known from the beginning not to be a problem. Might be too simple a concept for your limited brain capacity.

Now that you've expressed your opinion and I've expressed mine, this thread is done. Those that read it can make up their own mind what is the best gear oil to use. The opinion and vast "experience" of a smart-ass 20 year old or an old fart that uses the facts to back up what he says. Of course, SF is an option for ya...they listen to just about any opinion over there.
 
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