What does it take to go E85? Advantages/Disadvantages?

[Nick M]

How long have you been running an engine on E85, and what makes you qualified to comment? Thought so.....

I also didn't chop my arms off, and am qualified to say I don't want that disability. Got anything else? Sheesh. My extensive secondary and manufacturer education allow me to make that post accurate from a technical standpoint. Get over yourself.

 

[Nick M]

Another thing that most people don't see... I wouldn't even mind that so much if I had access to E85 somewhere within the area, but I don't, so I find the whole idea kinda corny...

Sorry, I had to.

E85 at my local pump was 6 cents more than 91 at Conoco here in the StL burbs. I use 93 from BP myself.

 

[Quin]

That's odd Nick. It's usually almost a dollar cheaper than 87 here. Matter of fact I don't think I've seen it over $3 a gallon yet. Planning on running it in my car. Stock lines, upgraded pump and 720s. Turbo setup I'm looking at wont need more than that, and if the tank/lines/injectors/etc don't like it and give up the ghost, oh no I lost a 200k mile motor and I replace it before my built motor goes in. lol

 

[87M-GTE]

E85 at my local pump was 6 cents more than 91 at Conoco here in the StL burbs. I use 93 from BP myself.

That's odd Nick. It's usually almost a dollar cheaper than 87 here. Matter of fact I don't think I've seen it over $3 a gallon yet.

$2.99 by me

 

[Poodles]

I could also tell you how to get within 5% of the same fuel economy on E85 as regular fuels, and have much more power, but you're both too ignorant to listen, so I won't bother.

Apparently you can defy physics...

 

[Crypton2006]

Apparently you can defy physics...

There are alot of people experimenting with E85 and getting these results. Honestly i don't see it being that big of a problem, Dumping in a buttload of timing can do amazing things. Physics say 91 should get worse gas mileage buy my BMW gets several miles to the gallon better on it then 87, again due to timing.

 

[te72]

There are alot of people experimenting with E85 and getting these results. Honestly i don't see it being that big of a problem, Dumping in a buttload of timing can do amazing things. Physics say 91 should get worse gas mileage buy my BMW gets several miles to the gallon better on it then 87, again due to timing.

Timing equals torque, torque equals better mpg in most cases, no?

 

[Nick M]

Please, if you don't know about ethanol fuels, refrain from spreading the usual anti ethanol myths.

Keep political B.S. out of this thread and in off topic where it belongs. We're talking about fuels for sports cars.

There IS NO POWER LOSS with E85.

I meant to come back sooner for one more post. The Duramax and Cummins guys will gladly brag about this one.

 

[Clint]

I will be running E85 on my setup Jordan, I changed my lines to teflon and stainless steel to be on the safe side with 1000cc injectors and I will be running dual walbro pumps. I just got my Proefi with flex fuel sensor, I plan on running both 91 and E85 and getting tuned for both. E85 in Arizona is avg 20 cents cheaper than 91 and c16 is $5-6 avg. The only thing I'll miss is the cotten candy smell of race gas.

 

[87M-GTE]

The only thing I'll miss is the cotten candy smell of race gas.

True dat, but have you smelled E85 yet? OMG you have something to look fowards to

 

[Turbo Habanero]

My next big project is to convert to e85 maybe in a month or two just going to be running one walbro still havnt figured out what size Injectors ill need or where I should find fuel lines.


Clint where did you locate your lines at?

Do you think maft pro on speed density would be a decent way to go with e85

 

[figgie]

Holy crap!

I go away for one year and this is what happens?!?!?!?

Lets get all this ironed out quickly.

1. Ethanol will have less energy per same unit of volume measurement than gasoline. This is very true! Unfortunatly a person does not tune to gallon, liter etc. They tune to lambda (not AFR)! which bring up point numero 2!

2. At the Same lambda, Ethanol has MORE energy than the equivalent lambda of gasoline/diesel as it requires more fuel to achieve the same lambda (the answer is right in the AFR equation. Gasoline requires 14.6/1, Ethanol requires 9.6/1 (for those math challenged, that is an increase of 35%) , methanol in the 4's/1. It is a very simple chemistry equation balancing really. More fuel and same O2 content = more heat (ie power).

3. since the same lambda (1) requires more fuel, the MPG for ethanol will be lower when compared to gasoline or diesel. This is not up for debate. lol

4. Cars since about, ooohh early 90's had lines that can handle Ethanol due to the E10% mandate. only thing needs to get adjustment is for the volume needed for the power being produced.

any questions? You know me, I expect facts, MATH (both physics and in this case, Chemistry), not feelings, politics, beliefs. Leave that elsewhere.

 

[eraezer]

4. Cars since about, ooohh early 90's had lines that can handle Ethanol due to the E10% mandate. only thing needs to get adjustment is for the volume needed for the power being produced.

any questions? You know me, I expect facts, MATH (both physics and in this case, Chemistry), not feelings, politics, beliefs. Leave that elsewhere.

Those two lines do not work well together.

First of all which cars had E10 compatible fuel lines?

Late last summer we were supposed to get E10 and the car manufactures had lists available where one could see if their car was compatible. The earliest ones were usually from mid 90's and not even all of them.

How can you say "only thing needs to get adjustment is for the volume needed for the power being produced." when cars designed for E85 from factory break down due to E85? It's all over the newspapers and is also well know in the industry.
You are lying to people when you're say that.

 

[figgie]

Those two lines do not work well together.

First of all which cars had E10 compatible fuel lines?

Late last summer we were supposed to get E10 and the car manufactures had lists available where one could see if their car was compatible. The earliest ones were usually from mid 90's and not even all of them.

How can you say "only thing needs to get adjustment is for the volume needed for the power being produced." when cars designed for E85 from factory break down due to E85? It's all over the newspapers and is also well know in the industry.
You are lying to people when you're say that.

actually they do.

Perhaps a qualifier would be that only applies to the US. EU and other areas have there own mandates.

as for E85 factory breakdown. What did I tell you about facts not heresay? Science not beliefs. Careful, 2nd hand information of questionable accuracy presented as fact. I did run e85 for quite some time. Actually I was running this stuff before the high hp world even had a twinkle in thier eye about this fuel. I am talking 2006ish. Hell I have write-up here with that very information in it (along MANY other brain dumps that I did).

 

[eraezer]

So your "facts" are based on one car?

 

[figgie]

So your "facts" are based on one car?

Nah!

Facts are based on Chemistry, Math, toss in a bit of thermodynamics into the mix and blend. No need for "newspaper" or one car when Ford and GM already did all the hard work. Throw in some blackstone laboratory oil analysis of E85 imapact on both conventional and Synthetic and you have a tough hill to prove your position.

 

[IBoughtASupra]

I have heard that E-85 does not work well with oil and breaks it down. I am not sure about this but I have seen every rotary, that has a catch can setup, get full and if you pour the fluid out, it's actually flammable.

:ugh:

 

[eraezer]

Nah!

Facts are based on Chemistry, Math, toss in a bit of thermodynamics into the mix and blend. No need for "newspaper" or one car when Ford and GM already did all the hard work. Throw in some blackstone laboratory oil analysis of E85 imapact on both conventional and Synthetic and you have a tough hill to prove your position.

So how are your facts based on chemistry and thermodynamics when money is involved?
Money will make them say different stuff to make you buy their car.

Throw in factory fail from Volvo and SAAB (Oh! wait! GM owned SAAB during this period so that must mean that they use the same technology => GM fail).
Throw in first hand experience with a race engine in an engine test bed. (and some other engines)
Throw in that the newspapers are not some gossip shit but in fact an technical industry paper.

E85 IS corrosive to a lot of materials in and around the engine. There are measures to take to protect the engine, but I'm guessing that you live in a dreamworld where E85 is as nice as candy, just brush your teeth daily and you'll be fine, so no measures have been taken with your engine.

How does your injectors flow now compared to before?

For all you other people reading this thread,
if you want to use E85 without killing your engine you need to do a lot more than just upping the fuel flow volume.

 

[figgie]

So how are your facts based on chemistry and thermodynamics when money is involved?
Money will make them say different stuff to make you buy their car.

Throw in factory fail from Volvo and SAAB (Oh! wait! GM owned SAAB during this period so that must mean that they use the same technology => GM fail).
Throw in first hand experience with a race engine in an engine test bed. (and some other engines)
Throw in that the newspapers are not some gossip shit but in fact an technical industry paper.

E85 IS corrosive to a lot of materials in and around the engine. There are measures to take to protect the engine, but I'm guessing that you live in a dreamworld where E85 is as nice as candy, just brush your teeth daily and you'll be fine, so no measures have been taken with your engine.

How does your injectors flow now compared to before?

For all you other people reading this thread,
if you want to use E85 without killing your engine you need to do a lot more than just upping the fuel flow volume.

LOL

You are AWARE that Saab nor Volve ever made a E85 car right? Perhaps there in the EU market yes but never in the US&A. No Saab ever had the flexfuel capability. So if some "genius" did infact run E85 in a system designed around gasoline. Of course it is going to blow! It would be running dangerously LEAN!

Instead of getting into this back and forth. I want math. PS not GM math, I mean YOUR math (all the numbers are freely available for you to crunch, no need for GM or Ford supplied numbers ), your chemistry , ie equation balancing based on ethanol+Hydrocarbon blend of choise and its effect on the synthetic lines used in EFI systems. Also include the E85 effects on, Aluminum (anodized and Aluminum Oxide), Mild steel, Zinc plated steel etc.

Until NUMBERS are provided, it is hot air.

I await your response.

 

[eraezer]

Yes they do. Look it up.

nevermind then, keep living in your dreamworld.
I've seen the results so I don't need to prove anything. At least here in Sweden, we do know what happens if you run an engine on E85 without protecting it.

But feel free to amuse me with your proof of that all you need to do to run E85 is to compensate for the extra fuel needed.