What do you guys think of this intercooler design? ,':-|

[Insidious Surmiser]

To me, it looks like the end tank design would cause a lot of turbulence. If this weren't the case, people wouldn't have been making intercoolers like these for a looong time. :icon_surp I don't have anything to base these assumptions off of other than common sense, so what say you guys?

 

[hvyman]

The bottom one will work better tho a side to side will be the most efficient. Also longer the piping the more of a pressure drop.

 

[Backlash2032]

There is zero pressure drop through piping... The longer/larger the piping the more lag.

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[Prism11]

There is zero pressure drop through piping... The longer/larger the piping the more lag.

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You must not know much about pipe sizing.. If there was zero pressure drop nobody would make a pipe size over 1/2" diameter...

 

[7M4EVR]

You must not know much about pipe sizing.. If there was zero pressure drop nobody would make a pipe size over 1/2" diameter...

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the volume of air in a motor is constant, therefore after the intercooler the size of piping is really just going to be affecting flow (CFM), not pessure because it takes longer for that air to fill up the volume of the larger size piping (hence lag)?

 

[Backlash2032]

7M4EVR that is EXACTLY right.

Well essentially. It's the same thing pre intercooler as well. Bigger pipes flow more but increase lag.


If you take a pipe and put 10 psi in one end, what's the pressure at the other end? 10 psi..

If you double the pipes diameter and length.. and put 10 psi in that pipe.. what's the pressure at the other side? 10 psi. It just takes more air to fill the space..

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[DeMoN2318]

Same volume of air...in a larger volume space = lower pressure...

 

[Backlash2032]

It won't be the same volume of air.. the wastegate will make sure of that.

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[DeMoN2318]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the volume of air in a motor is constant, therefore after the intercooler the size of piping is really just going to be affecting flow (CFM), not pessure because it takes longer for that air to fill up the volume of the larger size piping (hence lag)?

7M4EVR that is EXACTLY right.

Well essentially. It's the same thing pre intercooler as well. Bigger pipes flow more but increase lag.


If you take a pipe and put 10 psi in one end, what's the pressure at the other end? 10 psi..

If you double the pipes diameter and length.. and put 10 psi in that pipe.. what's the pressure at the other side? 10 psi. It just takes more air to fill the space..

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It won't be the same volume of air.. the wastegate will make sure of that.

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7M says constant volume of air...you say EXACTLY right...then you say it wont be the same volume of air...

im confused

 

[Backlash2032]

I was ignoring that bit. But for the most part he's right. Same volume of air, larger pipe, lower pressure. There still won't be a pressure drop across the pipe though. But our wastegate will ensure that there will be more volume to fill the pipe.

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[DeMoN2318]

Hmmm...I dont think that is right...

Since the wastegate is going to open at some compressor pressure...more pressure and the wastegate will open more and bleed off more turbine gas preventing the compressor from increasing it's output pressure, so the compressor is going to putting out the same PSI air. Then the pressurized air travels through pipes and then reaches the intake.

while it travels through the pipes the wall friction will create a boundary layer that will virtually create a concaving nozzle increasing the flow velocity, this decreaseing the pressure (per bernoulli)

 

[Backlash2032]

You'd be right if the wastegate worked off of volume, but it doesn't. There needs to be pressure at the compressor outlet inorder for the wastegate to see pressure.

Smaller pipes increase velocity.. larger pipes decrease velocity. Is this what you're referring to in your second paragraph?

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[Insidious Surmiser]

so, I see you guys aren't concerned with any potential turbulence caused by this end-tank design ,':-|

 

[TrqMnstr]

I don't think the end tank design would harm the flow of air through the inter cooler. However I don't have any concrete info on this. I myself am looking at a similar design inter cooler(Not the spearco design).

Read this:
http://www.are.com.au/feat/techtalk/intecoolersMR.htm

 

[IJ.]

Comes down to speed of the air though the piping, ideally you want to stay below Mach .4 (about 304 mph from memory) anything over this heats the air through friction.

You need to know the CFM you're flowing then choose a pipe diameter to keep it below critical, as for bigger pipes being laggier again depends on what you're trying to flow, my T04z picked up response going to 3" pipes from 2.5".

2" piping
1.57 x 2 = 3.14 sq in
300 cfm = 156 mph = 0.20 mach
400 cfm = 208 mph = 0.27 mach
500 cfm = 261 mph = 0.34 mach
585 cfm max = 304 mph = 0.40 mach


2.25" piping
3.9740625 sq in = 1.98703125 x 2
300 cfm = 123 mph = 0.16 mach
400 cfm = 164 mph = 0.21 mach
500 cfm = 205 mph = 0.26 mach
600 cfm = 247 mph = 0.32 mach
700 cfm = 288 mph = 0.37 mach
740 cfm max = 304 mph = 0.40 mach


2.5" piping
4.90625 sq in = 2.453125 x 2
300 cfm = 100 mph = 0.13 mach
400 cfm = 133 mph = 0.17 mach
500 cfm = 166 mph = 0.21 mach
600 cfm = 200 mph = 0.26 mach
700 cfm = 233 mph = 0.30 mach
800 cfm = 266 mph = 0.34 mach
900 cfm = 300 mph = 0.39 mach
913 cfm max = 304 mph = 0.40 mach


2.75" piping
5.9365625 sq in = 2.96828125 x 2
300 cfm = 82 mph = 0.10 mach
400 cfm = 110 mph = 0.14 mach
500 cfm = 137 mph = 0.17 mach
600 cfm = 165 mph = 0.21 mach
700 cfm = 192 mph = 0.25 mach
800 cfm = 220 mph = 0.28 mach
900 cfm = 248 mph = 0.32 mach
1000 cfm = 275 mph = 0.36 mach
1100 cfm max = 303 mph = 0.40 mach


3.0" piping
7.065 sq in = 3.5325 x 2
300 cfm = 69 mph = 0.09 mach
400 cfm = 92 mph = 0.12 mach
500 cfm = 115 mph = 0.15 mach
600 cfm = 138 mph = 0.18 mach
700 cfm = 162 mph = 0.21 mach
800 cfm = 185 mph = 0.24 mach
900 cfm = 208 mph = 0.27 mach
1000 cfm = 231 mph = 0.30 mach
1100 cfm = 254 cfm = 0.33 mach
1200 cfm = 277 mph = 0.36 mach
1300 cfm max= 301 mph = 0.39 mach

 

[Dirgle]

The bottom one will work better tho a side to side will be the most efficient. Also longer the piping the more of a pressure drop.

Corky Bell confirms this in Maximum Boost. But not so much because of the longer pipes(Bar and Plate channels). The second intercooler experiences lower pressure loss due to a greater internal flow area. There are a higher number of channels for the pressurized air to pass through.

If you get the opertunity pickup Corky's book. Chapter 5 has a ton of information on this subject.
http://www.amazon.com/Maximum-Boost-Turbocharger-Engineering-Performance/dp/0837601606

 

[Insidious Surmiser]

@IJ that is some good food for thought. I'd planned to just use 2.5" piping w/ stock TB and stock cams. But my head is ported, and it feels like it could benefit from a better intake manifold/TB, ect. I'm just building a mild street car using a airwerks 8375 (S360) for 4-500hp.

good stuff too @ dirgle

needless to say, I appreciate everyone's input

 

[maxburn]

How do you determine the CFM you're flowing?

 

[Insidious Surmiser]

calculate off of how much air your turbo is moving. (lb/min = cfm * .074)

so let's assume 55 lb/min / .074 = 743cfm should put you in the ~500whp ball park

my tuner said 2.5" was good for up to 600whp, so this would make sense

 

[maxburn]

Thanks for explaining that I haven't dug into much on intercoolers yet but I'm starting to realize how important they really are...