Welding on the stock intake manifold?

[Rennat]

So i now have access to a TIG welder, not exactly sure what the specs are. Its at a friends shop/house/garage setup. But i want to modify the stock manifold into a FFIM... im going to be getting either one from the FS section, ebay, or the junkyard...

but my question is what filler rod do i use? i have no idea what the oem intake manifold is made out of... and i figure one of you will have an idea.

Also, what tungsten rod would i use? Im use to mig welding... so im rather new to the whole tungsten thing.

Any other tips, or advice would be great. Im going to have a new TB flance CNC'ed for me... any suggestions on what i should make that out of either?

 

[adampecush]

my only advice would be to be prepared to ruin a few manifolds before putting one together correctly. Aluminum isn't particularly easy to weld, and the fact that it is cast doesn't help matters (due to the porosity). It is extremely easy to burn through, especially if you are used to welding steel with a mig setup.

As for the electrode, thoriated tungsten would work.

I made my intake flange from 6061-T6 (no longer t6 after the welding...). No idea what filler was used as I had someone else do the welding.

 

[figgie]

The stock Turbo Intake Manifold is Aluminum and thick aluminum. Requires ALOT of power from the welder to get it to weld GOOD.

Have a manufacture and model of the welder in question? Perhaps a COLOR?

 

[jetjock]

4043 for the filler. 3/32" pure tungsten for the electrode, balled on the end. Zirconiated or lanthanated with a point will also work. You may be able go with 1/16" if using lanthanated. Lots of people use thoriated and get away with it but the arc isn't going to be as stable. About 15 cfh on the argon. For something that thick helium would be better. Make sure everything is clean. Use a stainless steel brush on the area just before striking. Start with around 160 amps and wave balance set to normal. Not to discourage you but you understand it'll have to be AC, that TIG is nowhere as easy as MIG, and that welding AL is even harder right? If you've never held a torch and expect to just pick one up and be successful you're in for a surprise.

 

[MK-111]

the guy who welded mine up, said he pre-heated it, made the job easier, I would imagine a lower power welder would benefit from this also.

 

[figgie]

the guy who welded mine up, said he pre-heated it, made the job easier, I would imagine a lower power welder would benefit from this also.

Only so much.

AL welding requires penetration and that is only possible with high amerpage as the AL loves to dissipate the heat damn quick.

 

[Clip]

i doubt you could, but could you preheat a chunk of steel and clamp it on under your seam, then preheat the entire piece?

only bring this up because i was reading the opposite on miller's site (to weld sheet metal have a heat sink like a bar of copper underneath to draw heat = less burnthrough)

 

[black89t]

rennat.

i have done all four common forms of welding oxy/act., mig, arc, and tig. tig is by far the most difficult. its somewhat like oxy/act. how you have to create a puddle of molten metal without burning through the piece then slowly add a drop. repeating until you have a full bead. also because you have your torch in one hand then your rod in the other that is the other simularity. you have to be steady with both of your hands at once. not easy. if you are a good oxy/act welder then i would say you might be able to pic it up quick because you have the cordination with both hands. but starting off with aluminum is asking for a frustrating time.

 

[Rennat]

i've done all forms of welding, and i prefer mig and tig... for obvious reasons. haha

im thinking i'll make my exhaust with the tig welder first, because i have 20 different stainless steel (304 & 409) 3'' bends, and i plan to make a custom exhaust system... so i'll start with that. plus welding the pipe will give me a better idea of how to weld the aluminum pipe to the intake manifold...

 

[IJ.]

Keep in mind Al doesn't change colour with heat, when it's ready to weld it goes shiny.

The next step hotter is a blob on the floor

 

[Rennat]

Keep in mind Al doesn't change colour with heat, when it's ready to weld it goes shiny.

The next step hotter is a blob on the floor

yeah, i remember that, it was a pain in the ass. when i tried to weld two 1/4'' pieces of aluminum, and make a box, i was able to get some beads flowing, but i burned a few holes. haha

and those blobs are HOT!

The welder my friend has is a snapon "muscle mig" 110v... and it has the TIG torch he says... so im not too positive i'll be doing the welding at his place for the intake manifold!

 

[IJ.]

Around 1200f hot

His little welder probably WON'T have AC so you can't weld Al anyway.

 

[Clip]

IJ, quick search on Ebay for tig welder and this is what turned up.

http://cgi.ebay.com/40A-LOTOS-PLASM...yZ113743QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

i know the deal (get what's paid for) so how bad is this going to be? i've only dealt in mig and stick, some oxy.

 

[IJ.]

No AC so it's going to be steel/ferrous only.

If you can weld with an Oxy torch it's good practice for TIG.

 

[C.44]

Your friend probably has a MIG with a spoolgun. That allows you to do some TIG like welding.

However, hardly any MIG welders have AC capabilities and that's exactly what you need to weld alu. You are going to need one part of the pulse to do the actual melting (pushing power IN) and one part of the puls to draw dirt/contaminations out (reversed polarity).

Before attempting to weld aluminum, make sure it is clean. If you just bought it and it looks clean... it's dirty. Take a NEW stainless steel wirebrush which you use ONLY for aluminum and thoroughly clean the parts you are going to weld.

Like Ian said, aluminum doesn't change color it goes shiny. If you didn't clean the part good enough you will not get the aluminum to go "shiny". There's no use in trying to add filler as it will not flow into the puddle. Instead it will get stuck onto your thungsten. If you have filler on your thungsten CLEAN IT. You will have a very unstable arc that will be all over the place if you don't.

With that said, you CAN weld aluminum using DC only. BUT, your welds will be flawed, unstable, uneven, unreliable and they'll look like crap.

 

[hottscennessey]

Clean clean clean, makes all the difference in the world.

Also, make sure you have pure Argon, the welding shop I bought my first tank of gas from gave me a cyl of 75/25 by mistake. I really thought I sucked at welding, I was about about to sell my brand new AC tig until I bought a new bottle. From then on it was gravy .

 

[skipbarber]

The biggest difference you are going to see between the stainless and the aluminum, is that when running stainless, the puddle is generally much smaller and can be kind of "sticky" if you aren't careful where you dip your filler. Thats really the only word I can use to describe it, I'm sure you will see what I mean. Aluminum flows much better (again, only by practicing could you see what I mean).

Like the other guys said, cleanliess is godliness when welding aluminum. I can tell you right now that an OLD & USED cast part is impossible to clean completely. It soaks up any and all kinds of oil and dirt. You could soak it in acetone for a month and hot tank the hell out of it, but it will still have crap in the weld. The fact that you are welding on the outside of the manifold (I'm assuming), and not the inside should make it somewhat easier, but don't expect any miracles. That said, just do the best you can at cleaning it.

Preheating will help a lot, especially if you don't have a powerful machine. Either way, that piece will be cookin, so get your leather gloves ready.

well.. bleh,... I was gonna write a bunch of stuff, but you know what, your best bet is to go out and buy a welding book from the book store. Anything by Richard Finch is pretty thorough and easy to read. He usually has step by step instructions on everything you will need to get going. If you have any questions, it sounds like there are a few other professional welders on here including myself, so just shoot us a PM.

I'd like to see pics of your progress and Perhaps give some pointers. Have fun, and don't forget your long sleeves and gloves! Skin cancer = no fun (or so I've heard)

-Avi

 

[jetjock]

One more thing: You should argon purge the ID of the stainless tubing while welding the OD. If you don't it'll sugar...

 

[Clip]

what about the possibility of welding aluminum with mig? seems like lincoln electric says i can as long as i watch what they tell me to.

http://www.lincolnelectric.com/knowledge/articles/content/compactmig.asp

 

[cjsupra90]

You can mig aluminum. Just want to have a nylon liner and fairly short whip.

Side note: What a lot of people dont know is that MIG was actually invented to do aluminum. This was back during WWII. The reason for it was cause a faster way to build air plains was need and TIG (back then known as Heli Arc) was too slow of a process. MIG is still extensively used in the aviation and trucking industry. For example, Freightliner still uses MIG for 99% of all their aluminum welding needs...