Valve guides worn?

[80083r]

Ok, I have searched and found that it seems likely that my valve stem guides (or the valves themselves) are worn.

Symptoms:
White smoke on startup, disappears when warm. Takes about 30-60 seconds to go away. I'm sure some of it is condensation, but it's fairly dense.
No smoke on acceleration or deceleration.
Smells like gas/oil, not sweet.
No overheating, oil in the coolant, milky oil. Inspection by Toyota a couple years ago saying the head gasket is ok. This leads me to believe it was re-torqued, but I'm not certain, car has about 246 000 km on it.
(I will test as necessary if you all think it's a head gasket, though)

I've looked in the tsrm, and the troubleshooting is to disassemble the head (unless I'm missing something) and measure valves, etc.

Is there a way to diagnose whether this is the valve stem guides/seals/seats/valves etc without disassembly? I'm not looking for a pinpoint diagnosis or anything, I'm sure that requires removing the head - I'm looking for a way to narrow it down to that area.

If it is worn valves/guides do I need to stop driving the car immediately - or can it wait for a year (about 1000 miles driven) without doing much damage?

Please let me know if more info / pictures / videos are required for advice. Links to troubleshooting techniques also appreciated.

 

[BryanDyer]

does it smoke like a couple seconds after you start?
and does it smoke only after it's been sitting over night or will it do it even after an hour
1 way to narrow it down(I may be wrong) is watch your oil consumption

 

[jetjock]

It may be (likely is) just the stem seals. The guides can be checked (indicated) when replacing the seals which can be done with the head on.

 

[80083r]

Ok, that was my (uneducated guess) conclusion also.


-edit for reading comprehension. Thanks JetJock

 

[7M4EVR]

Yep seals are pretty cheap and fairly easy to replace..

 

[7M4EVR]

Magnets, nylon string, and have someone else there watching for the keepers when they fly around lol.. One cylinder at a time, and go slow.

 

[Beals]

if I was going to replace the valve steam seals well I did my cam's should I just take my whole head off or is it best to leave it settled?

 

[BryanDyer]

if I was going to replace the valve steam seals well I did my cam's should I just take my whole head off or is it best to leave it settled?

well I did my cams? I'm assuming you meant when or something but I you're asking if you can do the valve stem seals with the head on then yes you can..

 

[Suprapowaz!(2)]

I replace my valve seals doing two cylinders at a time. Pistons 1&6, 2&5, and 3&4 go up and down together. I took the two pairs of pistons and dropped them to the bottom of their bores. Stuffed plenty of equal parts of nylon rope down both cylinders. Brought the pistons back up until you couldn't turn the crank anymore. Oh, and crank it manually and not with the starter. And don't crank the ever loving shit out of it. You just need to make sure the pistons are snug when you bring them up. Now you have two cylinders you can work with at one time. Start and complete one valve at a time. It does save time rather than stuffing rope for each cylinder.

A couple of things to do when replacing valve stem seals:

Cover your oil drain holes (oil galleys) in cylinders head, and any hole you don't want keepers to fly into!!! That includes the front timing cover area. Keepers have a tendency to fly out when installing them. This is something you don't think about until it's too late. One of my keepers popped out and landed right next to the oil drain hole. I would have been fucked if it went down there.

Take the buckets and shims you remove bag and tag them with the corresponding location they came out of!!! I1, I2, I3... E1, E2, E3... you get the point. Don't mix them up! I've seen people put them on the work bench with them labeled with a sheet of paper. With my dumb ass luck I would knock them off the bench and mix them all up. That why I use ziplock baggies, and a marker.

Check you valve lash before removing your cams. Take note of which ones are out of spec, and write it down. When you remove the buckets measure the shims that were out of spec and write that info down too. This way you can do the simple math and replace the shim with the correct size that would put it back to spec. That process only takes a couple of minutes especially is you only have a couple that are out of spec. You'll be glad you did when you put your car back together. Downside is you'll have to order the shims and wait for them to get in. Unless you have a bag of extra shims to work with like I do.

Consider replacing those old worn out valve springs at this point. They have to come off anyway might at well replace them with upgraded ones. I did the Comp Cams BBC inner springs. It's a popular choice if you're on a budget. There are others you can buy at a higher cost if you have the coin to drop.

When putting everything back together make sure you use FIPG sealer on the first cam caps per TSRM. Or you will have an oil leak issue.

It only take 14ft/lb of torque to bolt down the cam caps. Do not over do it!

 

[80083r]

anyone have a good guide (preferably with photos) to changing valve seals? I found one that seems good, but I'd like a recommendation, if anyone's got one. The TSRM of course shows removing the head to do the job (which I may do), but I have a head gasket with a good seal (I think, still needs testing) and would prefer not to mess with it if possible.

 

[7M4EVR]

^ not sure what all your looking for but the post above yours seems like a "good guide". Minus the pictures that's just about everything you need to know....thanks Suprapowaz, I was going to post the same thing yesterday but hadnt got around to it yet. What did you use for a spring compressor?

OP..if your going to tackle replacing the seals yourself make SURE you bag and tag EVERYTHING. It all has to go back in the same spot or you will be worse off than when you started. If you run into trouble and can't find the answer on the TSRM post on this thread.

 

[80083r]

Thanks - unless someone tells me in the next two weeks that driving it like this is going to kill baby seals or something, it will likely get done next year - at the point I'll be trying to do a rebuild anyway. Maybe the year after. (f***ing budget)

 

[7M4EVR]

I'm no mechanic but I wouldn't think it can hurt much...just let's oil get past the intake side and into the exhaust..maybe eventually gum up your valves or cat. Other than that just the embarresment of smoking, but I would get a more qualified opinion.

Like I said I'm not a mechanic and a buddy of mine and I changed the valve seals and it wasn't too bad at all..just gotta take your time and be organized...I wouldn't let it scare you off its not too bad at all and you won't regelret it, and the seals are cheap enough, the only hard part is stopping yourself from getting aftermarket valves, springs, and cams while your in there!

 

[Suprapowaz!(2)]

I used one of these

.
Unfortunately, I couldn't use it to remove the keepers. I used a piece of PVC pipe and a magnetic pen inside of it to pop off and catch the keepers. I used that valve spring installer tool to re-install it.


While replacing valve stem seals, if you do one at a time you really don't have to bag and tag anything. It if you completely disassemble the head you'll need to bag and tag. You won't be doing that because you'll replace the valve stem seals with the head still on the motor.

OP: If all you want to do is the seals then you can do that in one day all under $50. It's not rocket science you just need to know how to turn some wrenches. You keep asking for pics when there's plenty of tutorials on a website called youtube.com. They have lots of educational videos on that website that will aid you with this task.

Are you mechanically inclined? Are you confident with your wrenching skills? If so, then you're on your way to a smoke free MKIII. Good luck, and post pics with questions if you get stumped. We will help you. You can do it!

 

[7M4EVR]

I'm no mechanic but I wouldn't think it can hurt much...just let's oil get past the intake side and into the exhaust..maybe eventually gum up your valves or cat. Other than that just the embarresment of smoking, but I would get a more qualified opinion.

Like I said I'm not a mechanic and a buddy of mine and I changed the valve seals and it wasn't too bad at all..just gotta take your time and be organized...I wouldn't let it scare you off its not too bad at all and you won't regelret it, and the seals are cheap enough, the only hard part is stopping yourself from getting aftermarket valves, springs, and cams while your in there!

 

[7M4EVR]

Sorry for the double post...damn phone

 

[80083r]

I used one of these

.
Unfortunately, I couldn't use it to remove the keepers. I used a piece of PVC pipe and a magnetic pen inside of it to pop off and catch the keepers. I used that valve spring installer tool to re-install it.


While replacing valve stem seals, if you do one at a time you really don't have to bag and tag anything. It if you completely disassemble the head you'll need to bag and tag. You won't be doing that because you'll replace the valve stem seals with the head still on the motor.

OP: If all you want to do is the seals then you can do that in one day all under $50. It's not rocket science you just need to know how to turn some wrenches. You keep asking for pics when there's plenty of tutorials on a website called youtube.com. They have lots of educational videos on that website that will aid you with this task.

Are you mechanically inclined? Are you confident with your wrenching skills? If so, then you're on your way to a smoke free MKIII. Good luck, and post pics with questions if you get stumped. We will help you. You can do it!

Um.. I think I only asked once for a tutorial - and only to see if there was something out that that was omgwtfbbq. I have a great deal of confidence in my ability to turn wrenches When I open it up - I want to also replace cylinder head cover #3, probably the valve springs (they've got to be tired by now) and check clearances on the cams... and something else I've forgotten.

Just to clarify - I have a budget of $600 / year for the car in repairs, and right now I'm $150 in the hole (great deal on a clutch kit and tail lights - couldn't pass it up) so almost everything that isn't vital is on hold right now. $50 would just put me $50 farther in the hole If the engine is in jeopardy from running like this, the car will sit until I'm in the black in my car budget again.

My w.a.g. is that this will not hurt the motor (for a short time, anyway) - it's a fairly brief period of burning oil, and I just need to make sure it doesn't run low.

One more note - I'm in Canada, and EVERYTHING is more expensive here. Stupid taxes and whatnot. It's cheaper for me to order parts from Rockauto and have them shipped across the border.

 

[Suprapowaz!(2)]

Any updates? What did you end up doing?

 

[80083r]

No updates yet - this week and last were nuts. Normally I have evenings free, but have had plans every night for 2 weeks straight.

Car isn't on the road yet for the summer - I just replaced the tail lights, and in taking them off started following a trail of rust... now the back bumper is off and I just received a Princess auto welder, next weekend I can fix that and the one other spot I need to weld up, then I can reassemble, change fluids and maybe drive around a bit.

The valve stem seals will probably wait until next year (the welder was completely over budget - but only $99 delivered) - I only put a couple hundred miles on the car every year, and it will be less this year, due to longer time spend with "project" type stuff than usual.

 

[Kiraush]

Any update?
I have the exact same problem and I'm trying to get some rough estimates on how much it's going to cost to repair it myself, and I'm not much of a mechanic either but I can figure it out.