Valve buckets & shims got all mixed up (Stupid red squirrel!!!!)

[mastergrader007]

ok,
I know this probably sounds retarded, but i have had a red squirrel in my workshop that messes with all my stuff. I had the cams out of my 7mgte and the buckets or shims or whatever you call them all lined up in order. Just picked my head up from the shop about 30mins ago and i decided to go into the workshop to reassemble the cams. The friggen squirrel knocked over a bunch of stuff which in turn mix up all my buckets or shims or whatever you call them!!!! what the heck do i do now??? is there a way to measure the proper clearance with a feeler gauge??? My account is pretty much tapped out do to all the $$$ i have spent on redoing this supra. am i screwed??? or can someone here tell me how to do it??? Im thinking that i will just put them all in and measure with the feeler gauge. take the ones that arent in spec out and swap em around. could take 435145 years but will that work???? and like i said, how do i measure them??? OH, and if there is anyone here that lives in ontario, canada with a 9 milli that wants to shoot something, come on over!!

 

[toy fanatic78]

Yep,gonna have to measure them all.PITA,but you'll get the hang of it by the time you're done.
And you measure them with a micrometer(pawn shops are a good place to get them,a lot easier if you get a digital one too)

 

[Neodeuccio]

Rat traps and peanut butter. We had red squirrels in our basement for a while, but that took care of them. Little bastards.

Avoid the glue traps and "have-a-heart" traps unless you're a cold-hearted MFer. With those you still need to kill them, and lots of people fall victim to the "but I can't do that, they're helpless" problem. If you trap them and let them go, they will come back. You need to kill the little fuckers. These work great, and are cheap. Just be sure not to let them accidentally snap closed when you're setting them, they WILL break your fingers!

 

[CajunKenny]

Well, it's both. Shims and Buckets. Which are you referring to? The shims resemble coins and the buckets, well...buckets!

If I remember right, you should be able to measure and easily seperate the intake and exhaust sides. (someone correct me if I'm wrong there) After that though...just as you guessed. Process of elimination.

There's a shim and bucket clearance chart somewhere around here. Hopefully someone has it saved to their desktop and can post it up for you.

Good luck!

 

[dumbo]

The buckets are different sizes to eh?
I would put them in the order you thought there supposed to go, put the cams in, get a set of feeler gaues, and check them, non-interference motor, takes about 2minutes to measure both all 24 valves. Snap on makes a tool to change shims around with the cams in(Think I payed 80bucks). And a digi caliper at canadian tire cost 20-30$.

I would also go with the rat trap

 

[CajunKenny]

I was referring to the shims. The buckets should be REALLY close to being the same; but, aren't the exhaust and intake shims different enough to easily distinguish between the two?

 

[toy fanatic78]

I was referring to the shims. The buckets should be REALLY close to being the same; but, aren't the exhaust and intake shims different enough to easily distinguish between the two?

Shims and buckets are the same side to side,just different clearance specs for IN and EX valves.

 

[CajunKenny]

Right. So then wouldn't all the intake shims be relatively close to the same thickness and likewise with the exhaust shims?

Or better asked this way. What determines the clearances...the shims...the buckets...or a combination of the two? iirc it's just the shims.

 

[jdub]

The buckets are the same...the shims determine the valve lash.

The buckets "should" go back in the same place on the head....I would get an appropriate size ball hone and hit each hole in the head before I dropped the buckets in without knowing the order.

For the shims, you are going to have to measure each with a caliper and make an educated guess

 

[mastergrader007]

ok, so with a digital caliper how exactly do i measure them?? do imeasure thewhole bucket from top to bottom including the coin looking thing (what ive been calling the shim) ? or do i somehow measure just the coin thing? urrrggggghhhh.

 

[CajunKenny]

I measured my buckets seperately with a micrometer. Not the whole bucket, just the thickness of the top portion. Then I measured the thickness of each shim (coin looking thing).

But, yeah. It's just like jdub said. It's a little bit of guess work.

I'm still looking for that shim/bucket chart...

 

[jdub]

Your choice is to remove all the shims from the buckets or to measure best you can with them in the bucket and place on the correct side of the head.

In either case you will have to have a shim installed to measure lash (cams installed & torqued correctly) with a feeler gauge.

This might help:
http://www.supramania.com/forums/showthread.php?t=50674

 

[CajunKenny]

Here it is.

http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p86/jibaman/valves-1.jpg

Hope that helps!

 

[dumbo]

http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/item.asp?search=true&item_ID=11702&PartNo=YA8825&group_id=1569&supersede=&store=snapon-store&tool=all

Good luck man.

 

[GrimJack]

I did this once... only I didn't have a convenient fall guy in the form of a squirrel - I turned the head upside down to examine the bottom, and everything fell out.

First of all, I cleaned everything up... used paint thinner, but anything will work. Then let it dry.

Then I measured all the shims with a digital caliper and used a sharpie to write the thicknesses on each shim.

Assembled the head on the bench, and recorded all the clearances.

Pulled the cams back out again, did some sorting and math to get all the valves into the right clearance, then buttoned it back up again.

Put the engine together, ran it for 1000km, and checked the clearances again. A few of them had settled a bit too far, so I just picked up a few new shims from Yamaha and replaced those few.

 

[CyFi6]

^+1 just assemble it all put anything anywhere, then measure, do your math and swap them around accordingly. You may find that some are not even in spec, and in that case you need different shims anyways.

 

[mastergrader007]

ok, 1 more stupid question. I have decided since they are calling for SNOW today, i was thinking i would try and get all the valve shims as perfect as i can today. sooooooo my question is. how do i measure the clearence?? i have a feeler gauge, but im not sure of what position the cams should be in or what??? sorry about the lack of knowledge but i wanna make sure i do this right. could someone do a quick write up for me or send me a link to the instructions?? thanks

 

[dumbo]

ok, 1 more stupid question. I have decided since they are calling for SNOW today, i was thinking i would try and get all the valve shims as perfect as i can today. sooooooo my question is. how do i measure the clearence?? i have a feeler gauge, but im not sure of what position the cams should be in or what??? sorry about the lack of knowledge but i wanna make sure i do this right. could someone do a quick write up for me or send me a link to the instructions?? thanks

Use a feeler gauge, put the cam at its base circle,(lowest spot, valve fully closed) and slide your feeler gauge inbetween the shim and cam lobe. It's take a lot of practice to get the feel for it, but once you have a "slight" drag, your there, this is of course if the number on your feeler gauge is within spec, ie. your lash is in spec then.

 

[mastergrader007]

Ok, i just measured them. i dunno if when the lobes should be, so i made sure they were pointing straight up for each pair of valves. this is what i got

EXHAUST (o=valve) kinda confusing

o.008 o.010
o.007 o.013
o.012 o.009
o.009 o.009
o.012 o.009
o.013 o.013

INTAKE

o.006 o.006
o.005 o.006
o.007 o.007
o.010 o.007
o.008 o.008
o.006 o.008


what do ya's think??? the .005 on the intake is a little tight and the .013 on the exhaust is a little loose right??? will it still be ok??

 

[dumbo]

Yah, I'd be curious with the .005" but atleast its on the intake side(doesn't expand as much as the exhaust)

As for the three exhaust @ .013", they may tick, and ultimately not open as far, or stay open as long.

Just to clear this up, you want the cam on the LOWEST spot, 180degrees away from the tip of the cam lobe. The only reason we don't set the valve(on any engine) at 0.000" of clearance(lash) is lubrication, and when the engine heats up metal expands. 0.000" would be ideal in the perfect world.

It's your engine and your call if you want to swap some lifters to get perfect lash, rebuilt engine, I personally would. If you mic'd all your shims before hand, and know where you put them, you can do some basic math to find out what one you have to swap, or like GrimJack said pull the one out in question and mic them, get some from Yamaha. the 3 exhaust well need to be a bit thicker, and the one intake a bit thinner.

Hope that makes sense man:thumbup:

EDIT: I would also fix that one exhaust @ .007"