Using an A1000 pump w/o sumping, heres my idea...

[dbsupra90]

aeromotive told me to not run the car on less than 5 gallons of gas for an extended time. it will heat up the fuel.

i dont run my car that low anyway, so it wasnt a concern for me.

while im on the subject, ive heard of many more dual walbro failures than i have aeromotive pump failures. sure, there are a lot more people running the dual walbro setup than the am, but still i rarely hear of an am pump failing.

 

[NashMan]

i mentioned this caue you are suppost to run a sugre tank when doing this

the side by side thing never really liked

aeromotive told me to not run the car on less than 5 gallons of gas for an extended time. it will heat up the fuel.

i dont run my car that low anyway, so it wasnt a concern for me.

while im on the subject, ive heard of many more dual walbro failures than i have aeromotive pump failures. sure, there are a lot more people running the dual walbro setup than the am, but still i rarely hear of an am pump failing.

 

[flubyux2]

Figgie is 100% right. if money wasnt an object, nor sumping... i would totally run a Weldon before an A1k or multiple intank's.

Nash seems to be hitting on another key point that ive heard floating around the drag scene about the A1k's not lasting forever. they are considered a wear item, at least amongst the Outlaw and 10.5 class competitors i know. they replace the pumps every season or two. i beleive it to be just the nature of a centrifugal pump rather than the gearrotor we are used to. the centrifugals just arent positive displacement, so it just makes an "inefficient" pump more inefficient as it ages due to the tolerances inside of it. aside from that, i have also been told not the run the pumps in a part of the car that is closed off or low air-flow, or to run the tank near empty due to the fuel heating problem. its just a thing you have to cope with using an external like that.

but, Dave has a good point. i think there are alot more confirmed failures of the Walbro's than A1k's, which is why i wanted to find a way around depending on walbro's in the first place. Walbro: 60% of the time, it fails ALL the time... but AM: 20% of the time, it fails all the time! lol j/k.

its also been mentioned that getting creative w/ the mounting of the external pump can reduce the noisiness inside the car... so i dont think the noise is THAT big of a deal right now.

im glad someone mentioned using a walbro or two walbro's as unpressurized transfer pumps to feed a surge tank/air separator again... Sorry it didnt click sooner Wiisass. unpressurized, walbros will flow well over 255lph that they are rated for... check it out

http://stealth316.com/images/flowtest-walbro.gif

coupling that with say... a 4-6liter capacity surge tank will give enough fuel available to feed an external for a full minute of WOT acceleration depending on injector size. a six liter tank would feed a full rail of MSD 96lb/hr injectors at 100% DC for a Full minute. that would definitly be enough to find the gear-limited top end of a pretty powerful car (which is what tends to happen down here in florida.

but here i am, talking about incorporating failure-prone walbros... lets replace that with an MKIV tt intank... Im not good at finding inverse functions but can someone help find out how much the fuel volume would increase by decreasing the fuel pressure to 5-10psi?
http://stealth316.com/images/flowtest-supra.gif

 

[upgradedsupra]

Figgie is 100% right. if money wasnt an object, nor sumping... i would totally run a Weldon before an A1k or multiple intank's.

Nash seems to be hitting on another key point that ive heard floating around the drag scene about the A1k's not lasting forever. they are considered a wear item, at least amongst the Outlaw and 10.5 class competitors i know.

Like any after market part or even an OEM part, they are all considered "a wear item"

 

[flubyux2]

lol yeah... but id like to run it for more than a year or two... but hey, if it outlasts a walbro, i think justin and i have found a potential solution to 600rwhp+ fuel systems and avoiding the whole sumping thing. i know we talked about it the other night but a few of us dont want a big tumor with red, blue and silver stuff calling unwanted attention to our cars

 

[upgradedsupra]

a few of us dont want a big tumor with red, blue and silver stuff calling unwanted attention to our cars

You don't NEED to have it shown like mine as I also mentioned while chatting with you

I thought it was red white and blue? (not silver)

 

[Justin727]

:rofl: the eye sore!

 

[flubyux2]

You don't NEED to have it shown like mine as I also mentioned while chatting with you

I thought it was red white and blue? (not silver)

lol... yeah? well how do i hide it then? make another conspicuous box to cover everything up? i know the pump can be hidden but the lower-rear of the gas tank is about as obvious as the bumper or the fact that youre from the north (judging by your accent :biglaugh: )

 

[upgradedsupra]

lol... yeah? well how do i hide it then? make another conspicuous box to cover everything up? i know the pump can be hidden but the lower-rear of the gas tank is about as obvious as the bumper or the fact that youre from the north (judging by your accent :biglaugh: )

It doesn't REQUIRE a sump is what I am saying. You can have it like Ron or Nate and more subtle (I thought you would have known that :sarcasm: )

Duane

 

[flubyux2]

hmm, indeed.

well, putting the check valve on the outlet of the pump ought to preclude any loss of syphon on the feed side even when the pump is off. but the question is, how to prime the pump when there IS a syphon break?

Ron and Nate dont have anything else besides the external pump, do they?

 

[NashMan]

all so got another idea i whnet down to the sprint car track to ask about a good sump that cna tack many geens and not fail at the pump


make lower box on the bottom of the tank fill the box with gas tank fome kinda like sponge and never have an issh with slosh again

i think this is the root i going to take

this is kinda like the stuff i can get

http://www.crestfoam.com/intro.html

 

[IJ.]

Which would be fuel cell foam
(already been discussed in this thread)

 

[Doward]

http://www.mkiv.com/techarticles/fuel_pumps_test_2/index.html

Ok, Now I'm just getting confused here. The MKIV stock pump outflows the Walbro @ 13.5v? Gonna be kind of aggrevated if I dropped a GS341 in the tank for no reason other than to listen to it whine, lol.

I still say using a stock-style in take to feed a larger AM or Bosch or whatever you want to use in a high volume, low pressure setting would be the ticket.

That's the route I'm going to go. Also going to put a delayed timer on the relay for the big daddy. The stock-style in take will pump through the big pump, pressurize and allow me to start the car. Once the car is started, and idles for a few seconds, the big guy can kick on and take over. Instant priming + less electrical load at startup.

 

[figgie]

Nice thing about Weldon fuel pump, self priming

btw Duane, my last post should have read.....


Go Weldon IF you ever need to switch out your fuel pump again If your current fuel pump is working, then stick with what you have

 

[NashMan]

well yes i know that but in stead of full blown fuel cell you can make dinner plate sauser that you can just weld on the bottom of the tank i don't know about u guys but i cna get the fome buy it's self and make a sump and i think you can get it on ebay too

that or use teh stock drain hole as thread in but theni think the hole may get to small

but i have yet to test this

Which would be fuel cell foam
(already been discussed in this thread)

 

[Justin727]

well dave and a few others use the absolute bottom of the tank behind the drain plug. Instead of tapping the drain just retap the tank... Either do it that way or the way thats being discussed.

 

[figgie]

well yes i know that but in stead of full blown fuel cell you can make dinner plate sauser that you can just weld on the bottom of the tank i don't know about u guys but i cna get the fome buy it's self and make a sump and i think you can get it on ebay too

that or use teh stock drain hole as thread in but theni think the hole may get to small

but i have yet to test this

Foam + oxygenated fuel = replacing foam every year.

Foam does not like ethanol.... AT ALL.

 

[flubyux2]

Foam + oxygenated fuel = replacing foam every year.

Foam does not like ethanol.... AT ALL.

exactly, thats what i was trying to say the first time Foam was mentioned

so, doward... when you mentioned having an intank pump and then putting a larger external on a delayed relay, got me thinking. making a delay box is a little hard, at least for me to conjur up. so then i immediately thought of a SPDT relay! when its not energized, it will operate one device. then when you energize the relay, it will operate ANOTHER device while turning off the first device. sooo, run a walbro or TT pump (preferably TT Pump) in the tank on the NC side of the SPDT relay. then of course, wire it to a switch and flip it once the big guy is primed. then the big external should be on the NO side of the relay so itll energize as you kill the small pump.

im not sure how much current the aeromotive pulls but i KNOW that a 30AMP relay is NOT enough for a single TT pump. the stock TT pump will pull damn near 30amps when at a static FP of 38psi. i found out the hard way that it heats up the terminals of a 30amp relay too close to the temp capcity of typical wire, which i think is 120*C. after running for several minutes, the relay is too hot to hold. after switching to 40amp relays, the heat issue went away. soo, maybe a 40amp SPDT would be sufficient to round out the electrical side of the hybrid pump setup.