Upper ball joint not getting tight?

[Supra_dan]

Hey everyone, I am feeling very very stupid and stumped right now.

I'm replacing the bushings, and everything is going so smooth..figures, i knew i would hit a snag.

I for what ever reason can not get it to tighten, it's as if it's free spinning.


Yes, I am reading the trsm and yes, I searched and searched..the forum, google, everything.

What am I doing wrong??


Thank you!


So again: Doing upper control arm, got the ball joint in it's spot, go to torque it to 76ft lbs, but it will get to where its about to tighten and just keeps spinning (both driver and pass. side)

 

[3p141592654]

Pull it apart and remove any grease from the ball joint stud and knuckle receptacle with a degreaser and rag. Then reinstall and tighten.

 

[Maple191]

thats cause the ball joint is spinning inside. you need to get something to hold it in place like vicse grips but dont damaged the boot or youll have to replace it.

 

[Supra_dan]

Pull it apart and remove any grease from the ball joint stud and knuckle receptacle with a degreaser and rag. Then reinstall and tighten.

I apologize for either the close mindedness, or just lack of understanding.

Not being sarcastic (just want to reiterate because it can be read wrong on the internet lol)

But how exactly would this work? Saying there was no grease, would it not still spin?

 

[Supra_dan]

thats cause the ball joint is spinning inside. you need to get something to hold it in place like vicse grips but dont damaged the boot or youll have to replace it.

Hmm.. shit, vice grips with..like a sock around the boot or something? last thing I want to do now is mess the boot up





One thing that isn't making sense to me, was when I loosened it from the beginning. How did I get the nut to come off with out the whole thing spinning now like it is

 

[3p141592654]

Its tapered of course and the only thing that stops it spinning is the friction between the stud and wall of the knuckle.

The first thing to do is make sure the two parts are dry of grease and oil, that can reduce the friction between the two parts. Clean it good with solvent and the friction should hold it together enough to prevent it spinning. Some people like to scuff the surface with emery cloth to increase the friction.

Second, put moly-lube or anti-seize on the retaining nut threads. That reduces the friction between the threads which is the force that turns the stud.

Third, increase the force by lightly tapping the ball joint into the tapered hole. Be damn careful you don't wreck it though, especially that top one.

The reason it came apart without trouble was that it had been inplace for 20 years and was tight. I have seen plenty of ball joints that spin when trying to undo them, and that is a real bitch. You can google peoples attempts to deal with that and get plenty of stories!

 

[jetjock]

Pull it apart and remove any grease from the ball joint stud and knuckle receptacle with a degreaser and rag. Then reinstall and tighten.

This. Reminds me of machine tool tapers. Morse, Jacobs, R8. Drill press spindles, lathe tail stocks, etc. Both parts must be clean and dry for the taper to hold.

 

[Supra_dan]

Alright, thank you all for the replies!


What I ended up doing was actually jacking up under the upper control arm to put force/pressure on it, this allowed me to tighten it

I hate when it's something simple and I can't figure it out.

Thanks google haha


Thanks again for all the tips

 

[3p141592654]

That doesn't usually work for the top arm since it is not load bearing, but glad it worked out for you.

 

[Supra_dan]

I'll get a picture up of what I did in a couple minutes.

I checked and rechecked, it's torqued to 76lbs like it should be

 

[Poodles]

Common on worn out ball joints Many manufacturers have a torque spec the joint should achieve before moving, if it's below that spec, the joint should be replaced.

Also, only way I can think that using a jack to put load on it would be is if you tightened the bushing bolts at full droop. Which you're not supposed to do as you'll tear them. Have to tighten them at ride height.

 

[jetjock]

Confusion reigns....

 

[Poodles]

Wasn't kidding

 

[jetjock]

Yeah I know but the thread is about something different. Or maybe I'm the one confused.

 

[Supra_dan]

So basically, I had the nut on the bottom as tight as it would go before spinning, then i jacked up from under the control arm, to 'pull' down on the ball joint

 

[stevenr816]

Use a pry bar to put pressure on the ball joints tappered seat. Then you should be able to tighten it. Are you using a nylock nut?

Another option is an impact and keep blipping the trigger. Causing sudden impacts instead of full rpm.

 

[Maple191]

I think what poodles is saying is that the upper join is worn out. And to clairify, ANY non-load bearing ball join must have ZERO play. What the OP did sounds like it has play.

 

[3p141592654]

Poodles test is performed on a disconnected ball-joint stud where you are testing the resistance to rotation, an indication of how tight the ball is in the socket and is indeed used to gauge wear.

That is not what this thread is about. The OP could not torque the nut on the stud as it was rotating in the knuckle. His solution should have made it worse since he was forcing the stud out of the knuckle with the arrangement shown. Regardless, it worked for him so "tant mieux pour lui" as they say.

 

[Bmettie]

So basically, I had the nut on the bottom as tight as it would go before spinning, then i jacked up from under the control arm, to 'pull' down on the ball joint

If you torqued it in that config, then you didn't torque it correctly and might fall apart on you. You have the right idea just the wrong direction, you want the ball joint to be pressing down when tight not up.