Upgrade Decisions - 2Jz or 7mGTE built motor for 450whp +

[supra1]

ok guys, so Im at a crossroads with my Supe and need your advice and suggestions please :1zhelp:

I had planned from a while ago that a big power hike was needed from my cars current 240rwhp ~ (4" full custom exhaust system, MBC, etc)

now is the time I am going to begin the mo-powa project and I am at a crossroads :cry:

I have just been offered a 2JZ GTE motor out of a JDM car that was rear ended (Mkiv 6 speed TT supra) and the price is very good. The engine comes with no ancilleries (no manifolds, alternator etc) but since I would be going Single anyway, and I can get another mkiv inlet mani, this is not a big concern.

The other option is the one I had originally planned...

To build the 7m GTE to handle a big power hike. Forged pistons/conrods, ARP studs and main bolts, clevite bearings, new oil pump, oil system upgrades as recommended in the excellent sticky on this forum, and then the remaining bits needed to run 500rwhp relatively reliably (its only my weekend/project car so Im lucky there)


My questions(s) :1zhelp:

Am I best to go for the 2JZ lump and do this conversion and funds allowing do some external modifications on that engine to get the 500 rwhp seeing as the 2jz does not require any internal mods to run that sort of power level ...

or do I go full on and build the 7m?

What do you think is the 'choice' (effectiveness and price) tuning option for either motor? I was thinking to go MAFT Pro if I stay with 7m power, or possibly AEM with the 2jz....

What would you do in my position?


Im thinking timeframe wise, if I can get all of the parts I need for a 2JZ swap in advance (use my R154) then it will likely be faster than the rigmarole that comes with an engine build...like waiting on the machine shop, who are waiting on someone else etc etc and then 3,4,5,6..months have gone by!!

Thanks

 

[Doward]

Depends on your goals, and how you want the power delivered.

Also depends on the price of the 2JZ. If under $1k, I'd go 2JZ, IF AND ONLY IF the 2J will do what you want.

For me, I wanted the extra torque of the 7M for this beast, as well as knowing I have a brand spanking new motor. Even a 2J will die if it has been neglected!

 

[supra1]

Depends on your goals, and how you want the power delivered.

Also depends on the price of the 2JZ. If under $1k, I'd go 2JZ, IF AND ONLY IF the 2J will do what you want.

For me, I wanted the extra torque of the 7M for this beast, as well as knowing I have a brand spanking new motor. Even a 2J will die if it has been neglected!

Good points there Doward.

The guy wants $1300 for the motor....but for round these parts, that is really pretty competitive!
A few Jap breakers rang me up with quotes equating to $2500 + :nono:

The 2J will do exactly what I want (1/4 mile car primarily and the odd weekend roadtrip!), but so will the 7m :aigo:
Agghhhh, still cant decide!!

 

[starscream5000]

Which motor do you know more about?

Go with that one .

Let's see, used motor dropped in, or freshly built motor..........

 

[Doward]

I'm with SS on this. Many will jump to the 2J's side (hence why the choice is so difficult) but I'll take a motor I know everything about vs one I don't, any day.

Not to mention, I *know* that my 7M will handle more than a stock 2JZ will. (fully forged internals vs hypereutectic/forged)

In the end, you have to do what you will be happy with. I picked up a locked up 2JZ for free - and gave it to my buddy Joel to rebuild for his ride.

I decided to stay 7M. And damn do I want a set of Andy's valve covers to go on it

 

[ForcedTorque]

Don't fall victim to the 2J=Power myth. Although the 2J can handle it it still takes a good bit of money to get you there. A 2J swap is not an easy swap from what I have read, so you would need to be ready for all that the swap is gonna throw at you. A 7M IS a good motor if you build it Right. 450HP is not out of reach of the 7M......I'd say it is quite common. With a freshly built 7M and properly installed MHG, it should not be hard.

 

[claricae86]

that Definately a hard choice, i recently had to make the same decision. I got a 2jz for free but i still ended up selling the 2j and using the money to rebuild my 7m. All in all it came down to what was posted above, I need the satisfaction of having a motor that is rebuilt compared to having a motor that supposedly has 40k on it

 

[GrimJack]

For reliable 500+ power, I'd want to rebuild anything that I was going to put in there.

 

[IJ.]

2J.

 

[suprabad]

2J

LSX.





I promise I won't bring it up again (in this thread).

:icon_razz

 

[IJ.]

LOL that wasn't an option

 

[The Reaper]

i vote 2JZ

it also depends on where you post this. Post this SAME thread in the 1J 2J section and see what your answers are.....

 

[Murd]

I'd vote 2J, one of MY main reasons would be the 6 speed getrag.

 

[suprarcr89]

if all your wanting is 500rwhp stay 7m you can hit that with stock internals reliably..ask dr.jonez and theres been others that have been running this hp level with stock internals with metal headgasket.....

put a fresh rebuild on it with metal headgasket and arp's if done right youll have a fresh rebuilt engine that will hold up to 500rwhp with no problems on stock internals. as long as you keep it properly maintained and have it tuned for the hp.....

last 7m i rebuilt for a buddy.. machine work and all the parts only costed him 1500 and that got him rebuilt bottom end rebuilt head with metal headgasket......thats alot cheaper than a 1j or 2j swap and you have a fresh engine not a used engine....

its a pain to spend all that money and time in a swap and install an engine that has issues.... then luckily if the people you got it from hold up to some type of warranty all you have to do is the labor part again but if they fight you. you could end up having to dish out money for another engine.... If i ever did a 2j swap I would rebuild the bottom end with new bearings and rings... just to be on the safe side... a fresh engine is always the way to go when your reaching for alot of hp...

 

[DonS1mpson]

2JZ-GE/T.

2JZ-GEs are pretty much worthless in the MKIV community, if someone wants boost they slap in a complete 2JZ-GTE. That keeps GTE prices high and GE prices nice and low - You can get a complete engine from a MKIV for no more than $500 if you look.

You will need to drop the CR with a thicker HG and not all parts from the GTE are interchangeable, but you should have a complete engine that will handle your 450whp goal for less than the cost of the GTE longblock.

Unless I'm missing someone major, this makes a lot more than getting a bare GTE and then singling that.

 

[supra1]

Thanks for the input guys, some good points made

if all your wanting is 500rwhp stay 7m you can hit that with stock internals reliably..ask dr.jonez and theres been others that have been running this hp level with stock internals with metal headgasket.....

put a fresh rebuild on it with metal headgasket and arp's if done right youll have a fresh rebuilt engine that will hold up to 500rwhp with no problems on stock internals. as long as you keep it properly maintained and have it tuned for the hp.....

last 7m i rebuilt for a buddy.. machine work and all the parts only costed him 1500 and that got him rebuilt bottom end rebuilt head with metal headgasket......thats alot cheaper than a 1j or 2j swap and you have a fresh engine not a used engine....

its a pain to spend all that money and time in a swap and install an engine that has issues.... then luckily if the people you got it from hold up to some type of warranty all you have to do is the labor part again but if they fight you. you could end up having to dish out money for another engine.... If i ever did a 2j swap I would rebuild the bottom end with new bearings and rings... just to be on the safe side... a fresh engine is always the way to go when your reaching for alot of hp...

supracr89, 500rwhp is my primary goal, but thats not to say I wont want more in the future once the car is running.....power, as we all know is addictive :biglaugh:

The main issue comes with the 7m head gasket and oiling weaknesses for me.... now I know these can be 'built out' or accounted for, but the 2jz doesnt have them to start with and thats where im thinking I could save some time and money.
After these comments if I do go the 2jz route I will definately strip and rebuild it with new bearings, rings and ARP hardware throughout. I believe the stock 2jz gasket is metal iirc.

Choices choices....

 

[crazysupra2JZ]

i started out building up my 7M... then i decided to switch to a 2JZ. i spent $5k on getting the motor in and running(including the motor). dyno'd at 470rwhp

i LOVED it. i sold the car and i bought another, don't ask me why,lol
but i bought another 2JZ to do the swap again.

 

[supra1]

DonS1impson

Nice suggestion there and one I had not thought of TBO. However building an NA motor for boost sounds like more effort than just coughing up the extra ££ for a 2jzgte longblock :naughty:

Money isnt the 'main' factor in this although it is a factor of course.

crazysupra2JZ

Nice work!
Did you do the swap yourself? Does anyone know of any good resources for the 2jz swap? (I know SF has some threads as Ive read them) but a parts list would be excellent!

 

[madsupra88]

For reliable 500+ power, I'd want to rebuild anything that I was going to put in there.

Best post in this thread so far!

 

[DonS1mpson]

DonS1impson

Nice suggestion there and one I had not thought of TBO. However building an NA motor for boost sounds like more effort than just coughing up the extra ££ for a 2jzgte longblock :naughty:

Money isnt the 'main' factor in this although it is a factor of course.

"Building it for boost" is little more than slapping on another HG, which you planned to do on a GTE anyway.

The effort going for going GE will be recouped when you factor in hunting down all of those little parts that you won't get with the GTE long block.

Anyway, give this a read:
http://www.clubna-t.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10

This too

http://www.supramania.com/forums/showthread.php?t=34525