Ultra High Performance Summer or All Season? Kumho Ecsta SPT and ASX vs others

[Figit090]

I wore out my Kumho Ecsta ASX's, or down to the wear bars at least, and one tire has worn a lot more on the inside because I didn't rotate them and I have a screwed-up left rear toe-in... (wreck and a shoddy subframe weld I didn't know about)

ANYWAY, I realized after reading that SPT's might be better for me because I never actually see snow, its very often rain (110 days a year according to my google). Our temps sometimes reach freezing but it's not terribly often. Average lows are in the 40's... Tire rack does warn not to use the SPT's and similar tires in near-freezing temps though, so I'm unsure if it would be dangerous to drive the SPT's in low 40's temps.

Otherwise, I'm looking for near or sub-$100 tires with good grip (not worse than the ASX), a decent ride (quiet would be great), and a not-horrible treadwear rating, since I don't race, save for maybe one autocross run a year, if that. Spirited driving sure, it's one reason I love my car, but mostly I use it to commute 15-20mi/day.

I looked at some summer tires with decent treadwear ratings and the SPT's seem good @320 vs the ASX's all-season 420 treadwear. Another Yokohama has 300, but I'm not sure if I want to go that low. Thoughts? I'll try and figure how long the ASX's lasted me, I'm not sure my mileage when I installed them.

The Yokohama S.Drive bests the Kumho SPT in road noise and ride quality in several aspects, but then looses in treadwear, and I'm not sure how far down I can go; I don't know how much longer I'm going to keep the car but I still don't want a tire that will wear out a lot quicker than what I just had.


For your clicking:

ASX: http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Kumho&tireModel=Ecsta+ASX&sidewall=Blackwall&partnum=25WR6EASX&tab=Sizes
SPT: http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Kumho&tireModel=Ecsta+SPT&sidewall=Blackwall&partnum=25WR6KU31&tab=Sizes
S.Drive http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Yokohama&tireModel=S.drive&sidewall=Blackwall&partnum=25WR6S&tab=Sizes

Any thoughts on how these tires compare as far as wearing and grip? I'm trying to look at Tire Rack's test results but when comparing numbers between tests and classes, I'm not sure exactly how they compare. G-force ratings and stopping distance of course are the same, given tire sizes that is, but I don't know about points ratings and their comparability between different test sets.

FYI - Tire Rack just went offline, hopefully they're back up when you read this.

 

[OfnaRcR4]

Links are broken. To be honest I'd look at bfgoodrich g force sport. They are coming out with a new one soon but I'm sure you could find the old ones somewhere. They look exactly the same except the new ones are called the comp 2? Had a set on my car, eclven went through some snow on them and was very pleased. Oh and get your alignment fixed so you're not throwing money away

 

[te72]

If you're looking for a long-lived (so far anyway) and relatively sticky tire that can also handle weather, I've been fairly happy with the Continental DWS tires that I've used for the last two winters. The only complaint I have about them is a fairly soft sidewall, but this has the added benefit of being a fairly comfortable ride...

This said, they offer about 60-70% of the grip that I have seen from the NT05's (summer only really...), but I'm almost afraid to explore the limits of the NT05, being a 200 treadwear tire and all. One thing you didn't mention was sizes that you're looking for.

 

[GrimJack]

I would not recommend using an ultra high performance summer tire in cold weather. I've done it, and as soon as the temps drop to even NEAR freezing, like below 10C / 50F, you lose a lot of grip. As a matter of fact, I don't get the full benefit unless the temps are really quite high, near 30C / 85F.

Personally, I run winter tires in the from Nov - Mar, and ultra high performance summers the rest of the year... and I rarely see sub zero temps. Winter tires use compounds that stay stickier in the colder temps, and deal with rain much better.

For an all season, all my friends are running Nokian WRs... they seem to be damn near the same performance level of really good season specifics.

 

[Figit090]

Thanks for the tips thusfar guys, I think some of you may have helped me last time I picked a tire.

Sorry I forgot to mention i wanted stock size, 225/50/16. I'm wanting to stay at $100 or less per tire if I can.


Good tip on the compound GrimJack, I did read that the summer tires (at least the SPT vs ASX) will tread water better, but I would be concerned about loosing overall grip in the cold. It's one thing to have warmish rain but when I sometimes wake up to frost on rooftops I'd be concerned about running a tire that says stay away from freezing temps.

I was happy with my ASX's grip and I am careful in the rain. I suppose I could look at some GT tires, some of those have knarly grip. I'll fix the links asap, sorry about that. More later...gotta go to work. :-/

 

[Poodles]

I run the SPT's, and they're not very nice when it's below freezing... In the rain I never had an issue, in fact they would plow right through nasty puddles that would usually pull you in.

In reality, most tires suck below freezing (except for snow tires), so it's really up to you.

 

[te72]

I've run the NT05's when it was getting a bit colder before I bit the bullet and put on the winter set, and if the temps were below 40°, I'd blow the tires off well into second gear on the Nittos, and they are a very sticky tire when warm... stick to something closer to the temp range you expect to drive most in.

 

[destrux]

I run max performance tires all year round on my car. I don't drive it in snow or freezing rain, only if it's cold and dry, but I don't have a problem with traction during normal or slightly quick driving. I don't drive like a racecar driver in near freezing temps though, because you never know when you might turn a corner and find a frozen puddle of water around here.

If you don't want to swap tires summer and winter then either stick with the ASX if you like it (or try the new kumho Ecsta 4X which is the replacement for the old ASX), or try a tire like the new Continental Extreme Contact DWS which handles and sticks very well for an all season tire with actual snow capability. I've installed them on a few RWD mercedes and cadillacs (sporty models) and the customers loved them. Tire rack also gave them the top rating in their category (which includes the ASX).

 

[lithium14]

Not sure how applicable this is, but I just picked up a Dsport and there's an article about a new tire from BFGoodrich that outperforms the Yokohama S.Drives, Hankook Ventus, and Kumho Ecsta SPTs. It's called the g-Force Sport Comp 2. Launches April 1st. (reportedly, the test took place on a course that tests all aspects of tire performance both wet and dry with fwd, awd and rwd vehicles.

 

[Figit090]

Links are broken. To be honest I'd look at bfgoodrich g force sport. They are coming out with a new one soon but I'm sure you could find the old ones somewhere. They look exactly the same except the new ones are called the comp 2? Had a set on my car, eclven went through some snow on them and was very pleased. Oh and get your alignment fixed so you're not throwing money away

I'll look at how that one tests compared to the others I'm considering. I'd fix my alignment but it's actually permanent damage/shoddy fix where the upper A-arm attaches to the rear subframe. it's been welded together, the A-arm is rubbing a tad bit and it's obviously not quite in line. nothing i can do short of a whole new subframe and les schwab pulled it as far in spec as they could. links are fine now (tire rack was down)

If you're looking for a long-lived (so far anyway) and relatively sticky tire that can also handle weather, I've been fairly happy with the Continental DWS tires that I've used for the last two winters. The only complaint I have about them is a fairly soft sidewall, but this has the added benefit of being a fairly comfortable ride...

This said, they offer about 60-70% of the grip that I have seen from the NT05's (summer only really...), but I'm almost afraid to explore the limits of the NT05, being a 200 treadwear tire and all. One thing you didn't mention was sizes that you're looking for.

Thanks for the tip, I'll have a closer look at that tire.

I would not recommend using an ultra high performance summer tire in cold weather. I've done it, and as soon as the temps drop to even NEAR freezing, like below 10C / 50F, you lose a lot of grip. As a matter of fact, I don't get the full benefit unless the temps are really quite high, near 30C / 85F.

Personally, I run winter tires in the from Nov - Mar, and ultra high performance summers the rest of the year... and I rarely see sub zero temps. Winter tires use compounds that stay stickier in the colder temps, and deal with rain much better.

For an all season, all my friends are running Nokian WRs... they seem to be damn near the same performance level of really good season specifics.

That's the kind of info I really wanted, I wasn't sure what sport tires do when it's cold, and I wake up to frost a lot in the mornings during the winter. I'm not sure how much better and all-season would be, but probably considerable. That and I had a summer tire when I bought the car and they were nearly USELESS in snow, the ONE day is snowed here that is. (It's extremely rare for it to snow here.)

I run the SPT's, and they're not very nice when it's below freezing... In the rain I never had an issue, in fact they would plow right through nasty puddles that would usually pull you in.

In reality, most tires suck below freezing (except for snow tires), so it's really up to you.

How do they do a little bit above freezing? how about mid 40's? it's usually not colder than that here. I dont have issues with my ASX's in the rain (in fact they are almost at the legal limit and I don't mind hitting puddles so much. The tradeoff probably isn't worth it for the extra wet traction if they do get really hard in the cold.

I've run the NT05's when it was getting a bit colder before I bit the bullet and put on the winter set, and if the temps were below 40°, I'd blow the tires off well into second gear on the Nittos, and they are a very sticky tire when warm... stick to something closer to the temp range you expect to drive most in.

Thanks

I run max performance tires all year round on my car. I don't drive it in snow or freezing rain, only if it's cold and dry, but I don't have a problem with traction during normal or slightly quick driving. I don't drive like a racecar driver in near freezing temps though, because you never know when you might turn a corner and find a frozen puddle of water around here.

If you don't want to swap tires summer and winter then either stick with the ASX if you like it (or try the new kumho Ecsta 4X which is the replacement for the old ASX), or try a tire like the new Continental Extreme Contact DWS which handles and sticks very well for an all season tire with actual snow capability. I've installed them on a few RWD mercedes and cadillacs (sporty models) and the customers loved them. Tire rack also gave them the top rating in their category (which includes the ASX).

I'll look at the 4x, I was wondering where it was in the lineup compared to the ASX, thanks.

Not sure how applicable this is, but I just picked up a Dsport and there's an article about a new tire from BFGoodrich that outperforms the Yokohama S.Drives, Hankook Ventus, and Kumho Ecsta SPTs. It's called the g-Force Sport Comp 2. Launches April 1st. (reportedly, the test took place on a course that tests all aspects of tire performance both wet and dry with fwd, awd and rwd vehicles.

I'm interested in that new set, I guess waiting a day won't hurt, but I don't know when it will be available at Tire Rack or Discount Tire Direct (not sure about that last seller.)



Thanks for your advice guys, looks like I'll probably stick to an all-season tire. I'll look more at comparisons and find a good deal. do you all buy from Tire Rack or is Discoun Tire Direct good too?

 

[OfnaRcR4]

Not sure how applicable this is, but I just picked up a Dsport and there's an article about a new tire from BFGoodrich that outperforms the Yokohama S.Drives, Hankook Ventus, and Kumho Ecsta SPTs. It's called the g-Force Sport Comp 2. Launches April 1st. (reportedly, the test took place on a course that tests all aspects of tire performance both wet and dry with fwd, awd and rwd vehicles.

This. Just heard about these at work. Cheap and outperform the KDW's. Wish I woulda waited..

 

[Figit090]

This. Just heard about these at work. Cheap and outperform the KDW's. Wish I woulda waited..

Now those look pretty good but that still leaves me wondering how they would do at 40 degrees F... Tire rack warns against near-freezing temps and I've been warned on here, I think I need a different compound.

I'll look some more at Tire Rack, Discount Tire and local dealers and see what I come up with

 

[Poodles]

Really nothing but snow tires will grip well at those temps. Just the nature of the beast I'm afraid.

Kinda sucks because it's a catch 22, you make more power since the air is cold and dense, but you have less traction as well :runaway:

 

[Figit090]

Really nothing but snow tires will grip well at those temps. Just the nature of the beast I'm afraid.

Kinda sucks because it's a catch 22, you make more power since the air is cold and dense, but you have less traction as well :runaway:

See, that's what I was fearing. I was under the impression from what GrimJack stated, that the all-seasons compound would be a bit safer because they wouldn't get so hard in near-freezing temps; whereas summer tires are likely designed to have soft compound in hotter weather and at the coldest probably 60 degree weather. I imagine when both are put at 35-40 degrees, the all-seasons would fare considerably better. Considering Tire Rack warns not to use the summer tires in near-freezing temps but doesn't do that on all-seasons, I'm leaning toward the notion that all-seasons would do much better.

Perhaps I'm wrong. If both suck equally (lol) then I'll get summer tires, since I never drive in snow. Ice is as bad as it gets, and it's black ice or localized areas that melt after sunrise.

I'll probably ask some tire shops what they recommend, but then again there's probably just as many or more knowledgeable people on here, the only benefit would be they know my climate.


-------EDIT:

found this link. I'll try and find more. http://www.tirereview.com/article/86588/weighing_summer_vs_allseason_uhp_tires.aspx

Still wary, though.

 

[GrimJack]

The Nokian WR that I mentioned has fantastic grip in colder weather. Most of my friends use them year round here. Is it as good as a dedicated set of winter tires, with another set of high performance tires for summer? No... but it's DAMN close.

 

[te72]

Thanks for your advice guys, looks like I'll probably stick to an all-season tire. I'll look more at comparisons and find a good deal. do you all buy from Tire Rack or is Discoun Tire Direct good too?

I've bought from both Tire Rack and Discount Tire Direct. Would buy from either of them again in a heartbeat. Usually I'll use TR for the reviews, and DTD for the purchase, in many cases DTD is a bit cheaper overall. I bought both my winter and summer tires from DTD, paid about what I would have paid for ONE set if I had bought locally...

Really nothing but snow tires will grip well at those temps. Just the nature of the beast I'm afraid.

Kinda sucks because it's a catch 22, you make more power since the air is cold and dense, but you have less traction as well :runaway:

This is true, but if the roads are clean and you have a good compound for cold weather, in an appropriate size, it should (in theory anyway) hold traction just fine. I actually had to take off the MBC during the winters here, because it was hitting 15-16psi on spikes and settling at 14psi because of the cold here, all without the MBC equipped.

So you say this Nokian WR is a good tire for winter and summer grip, as far as a compromise? How long do they last when you're driving on dry warm roads? I understand that's the downfall of a snow tire...

 

[Poodles]

Yeah, don't think it's really a bad thing. Many people refure to all-seasons as no-seasons as they make huge compromises to try and meet all demands (and they're still basicly worthless in the winter).

Just the nature of the beast when it comes to rubber...

 

[GrimJack]

So you say this Nokian WR is a good tire for winter and summer grip, as far as a compromise? How long do they last when you're driving on dry warm roads? I understand that's the downfall of a snow tire...

Well, average daily commute here is 30-50 miles, and they are lasting 3-4 years for those that drive aggressively.

 

[Figit090]

The Nokian WR that I mentioned has fantastic grip in colder weather. Most of my friends use them year round here. Is it as good as a dedicated set of winter tires, with another set of high performance tires for summer? No... but it's DAMN close.

Where do they all GET them?? TR doesn't have them and i'm not sure DTD does because their site is down.

I've bought from both Tire Rack and Discount Tire Direct. Would buy from either of them again in a heartbeat. Usually I'll use TR for the reviews, and DTD for the purchase, in many cases DTD is a bit cheaper overall. I bought both my winter and summer tires from DTD, paid about what I would have paid for ONE set if I had bought locally...

This is true, but if the roads are clean and you have a good compound for cold weather, in an appropriate size, it should (in theory anyway) hold traction just fine. I actually had to take off the MBC during the winters here, because it was hitting 15-16psi on spikes and settling at 14psi because of the cold here, all without the MBC equipped.

So you say this Nokian WR is a good tire for winter and summer grip, as far as a compromise? How long do they last when you're driving on dry warm roads? I understand that's the downfall of a snow tire...

Much point to their online warranty/road hazard service? Haven't looked into DTD's service.

I kinda think that a compound that doesn't get harder would grip better, while some tires will loose their friction coefficient greatly at a certain point. Not sure, though. Either way, how to tell what a "good compound for cold weather" is? I'm not knowledgeable enough nor to they really say what compound is used or it's cold weather grip retention. Confusing...

Yeah, don't think it's really a bad thing. Many people refure to all-seasons as no-seasons as they make huge compromises to try and meet all demands (and they're still basicly worthless in the winter).

Just the nature of the beast when it comes to rubber...

Well, maybe I'll just stick to the 4x since it did well and i know it did. I'll call some local shops soon and see what they say about their selections around here.

Well, average daily commute here is 30-50 miles, and they are lasting 3-4 years for those that drive aggressively.

What is the hotter weather and how often is it like that? it rains 100 days out of a year here. hottest days rarely cap 70... my average low is 45ish.
http://www.weather.com/weather/wxclimatology/monthly/95519

 

[GrimJack]

Where do they all GET them?? TR doesn't have them and i'm not sure DTD does because their site is down.

http://www.nokiantires.com/dealer-locator

What is the hotter weather and how often is it like that? it rains 100 days out of a year here. hottest days rarely cap 70... my average low is 45ish.
http://www.weather.com/weather/wxclimatology/monthly/95519

Our climate is almost exactly the same: http://www.weather.com/weather/wxclimatology/monthly/graph/CAXX0518