Tuner unable to tune out initial flatspot

Terry steward

New Member
Oct 18, 2007
53
0
0
66
benfleet essex
As above,,I have the AEM standalone,everything has been set up,TPS CPS,and its been tuned,,But the Guy just couldnt tune out,The flatspot,On initial pull away,,as i put my foot down,It kind of misses a beat,,Then off she goes,,,im no Teckoe but,,could it be Injectors,Delaying in squirting the fuel in ??,if so,is there a way of using a more efficient quicker reacting injector,,i e the different impedance Mkiv Injectors,With some sort of resistor inline ??,,
 

kotu100

Active Member
Nov 23, 2006
1,899
0
36
Easton, Ma
Find a new tuner if possible. Your tuner should be able to tune out any hesitation.
I have almost the same setup as you and i had the same issue. 10 mins at the dyno and it was fixed.
As long as theres nothing wrong with any of your sensors and voltages the "flatspot" is in the tune.
 
Oct 11, 2005
3,816
16
38
Thousand Oaks, CA
Whenever the ECU detects a throttle transient above a certain value it will fire all 6 injectors at once. It can do this midflight, so that even if a bank is on at the time it will still fire the others. Just one of many drivability tweaks in the stock ecu.
 

Terry steward

New Member
Oct 18, 2007
53
0
0
66
benfleet essex
So what parameter on the AEM,would my Tuner need to alter ?,,he said he had tried tweaking all sorts,(He was more specific,but i have the brain ofvsantas little helper,,it was Blah blah blah !) but nothing he did,cured that initial flat spot,,
 

adampecush

Regular Supramaniac
May 11, 2006
2,118
3
38
Edmonton
FWIW, I have the AEM box and no flat spot. The tuner should be able to tune accordingly as there are several tables that can be fine tuned to adjust throttle response.

Are you still on the AFM, or have you gone MAP? I would think MAP would give you a faster response to throttle-related airflow/pressure changes than the AFM. Also be aware that the AEM only reads absolute throttle position, it does not read an initial throttle opening signal like the toyota ECU does.
 

grimreaper

New Member
Jul 2, 2008
2,180
0
0
Dallas
TPS tip in enrichment might help. Timing transitions play a big role at take off from my experimenting. I've noticed a few degrees can make or break the starts on my car. Im a 5spd though so manuals may load the engine a bit more in this area. You might take a look at the timing maps 3P has posted in his ecu thread. Take note of the rate of change in the low rpm regions and see how your tuners match up.

Last time I looked at the AEM to AFM table, it was designed to simply set two points and extrapolate between them for load vs hz. This will not work to well with a karman vortex street sensor. Its not a linear output and will require additional correction at low/mid/hi ranges to be accurate. No easy feat with out knowing the sensors measured output vs velocity and cross section.
 

supraguy@aol

Well-Known Member
Dec 30, 2005
4,238
42
48
Atlanta
The fuel relay mod is to remove the 9-12volt jump in fuel pump voltage, and provide it a constant 12volts.
I don't know about the AEM, but it may or may not delete this function.
 

Terry steward

New Member
Oct 18, 2007
53
0
0
66
benfleet essex
Ok thanks,I will look into it,,thanks for your help guys,,it's been a slow slog with this car,as ive encountered so many silly problems and set backs on the Journey,the Guy has done a Great job with Driveability,as she is Docile with no running problems in traffic,or town driving,,and,once through that initial hesitancy,,she flies when I want some fun,,,it's just that Annoying blip,,that I'd love To eliminate,but now thanks to you guys,,I've got some ideas to put forward.
 

Terry steward

New Member
Oct 18, 2007
53
0
0
66
benfleet essex
hi terry

yes probably spent more time on that flat spot than any other tuning - cannot seem to rectify it - does not seem to respond to changes in the cal, so I would think there is probably something more with sensor scaling/mechanical issue rather than calibration alone.

- colin.


http://www.atspeedracing.co.uk/
Rolling Road - Engine Mapping - Carburettor Tuning - Competition Engines - Product Sales
tel: (+44) 01268-773377
6 Sirdar Road, Brook Road Ind. Est. Rayleigh, ESSEX, SS6 7XF


From: Terry Steward <steward187@btinternet.com>
To: "info@atspeedracing.co.uk" <info@atspeedracing.co.uk>
Sent: Saturday, 7 September 2013, 12:12
Subject: Hi Colin,,initial hesitancy on G70 AJT mkiii Supra


Hi Colin,,I've been trying to fathom out,and make enquiries about that Initial Flat spot,and have had several replies,from guys in the States,,including some from guys who Run the AEM,,
Heres a few of their Posts

grimreaper;1963230 said:
TPS tip in enrichment might help. Timing transitions play a big role at take off from my experimenting. I've noticed a few degrees can make or break the starts on my car. Im a 5spd though so manuals may load the engine a bit more in this area. You might take a look at the timing maps 3P has posted in his ecu thread. Take note of the rate of change in the low rpm regions and see how your tuners match up.

Last time I looked at the AEM to AFM table, it was designed to simply set two points and extrapolate between them for load vs hz. This will not work to well with a karman vortex street sensor. Its not a linear output and will require additional correction at low/mid/hi ranges to be accurate. No easy feat with out knowing the sensors measured output vs velocity and cross section.[/QUOTE

supraguy@aol;1963323 said:
The fuel relay mod is to remove the 9-12volt jump in fuel pump voltage, and provide it a constant 12volts.
I don't know about the AEM, but it may or may not delete this function.


##
adampecush;1963178 said:
FWIW, I have the AEM box and no flat spot. The tuner should be able to tune accordingly as there are several tables that can be fine tuned to adjust throttle response.
Are you still on the AFM, or have you gone MAP? I would think MAP would give you a faster response to throttle-related airflow/pressure changes than the AFM. Also be aware that the AEM only reads absolute throttle position, it does not read an initial throttle opening signal like the toyota ECU does.

3p141592654;1963072 said:
Whenever the ECU detects a throttle transient above a certain value it will fire all 6 injectors at once. It can do this midflight, so that even if a bank is on at the time it will still fire the others. Just one of many drivability tweaks in the stock ecu.
Doesn't know if the AEM can do this

Somewhere on another site,there was Talk of a possible fault with the TPS,,that on part throttle openings of 25/30%,,,,,it doesn't send out the correct Signal ???

Someone else said it sounded like an Air problem,,,maybe a Vacuum pipe not airtight ???


I don't know if any of these quotes will be of any value,,and if amongst them there is a clue to what's Happening,,as I don't know,,I'd just love to get to the bottom of that silly little problem.

once through that hesitancy,she flies !!!!,,and the Normal driving is fine,,,which would also suggest the TPS is ok on the part throttle,,as in town it's fine,and that would be a part throttle scenario.,

I know you spent a fair bit of time trying to eliminate that flat spot,to no avail,,and just wondered if you'd put down a few Lines of where abouts in the Mapping you looked at,,so I can post to the guys there,,??,,They may be able to Narrow down the problem,,there are some really High powered AEM mkiii's on the Site,,with no hesitancy reported,,so there has to be a cure,either in The Map,or It may be A fault in one of the Sensors.

Cheers,Terry




Sent from my iPad


I put some ideas to Colin,he was with a customer at the time,so was busy,but here is his initial response,,I'm hoping he is going to get time to look at the Quotes ect,
 

need new tires

rubber slinger
Nov 10, 2005
173
0
0
Dayton,Ohio
Have him verify
Timing(ems is synced with the car)
Injector latency
Coil dwell


Is this a issue just warm or cold?
After these items are checked, the problem is going to be fuel and throttle accel fuel