Tranny Problems...major one?

[thinhman]

Okay first of all I want to apologize; I know there are a lot of tranny treads out there. I read through a good percentage of them, if not all, and I still could not find my answer.

I have a LOUD clattering noise and it sure sounds like it is the tranny. I just drained my fluid and it filled a paint can (those small ones). The fluid was like dark as hell...basically sludge haha. I refilled with Redline MT-90 about 2.4 quarts, hoping that it would go away, but it ends up making it louder!!

So then I thought about one of those tales that I read; where if the previous person has not changed it in a long time, you might as well not change it either.

Any input would be mostly appreciated!

it's a w58 btw.

 

[thinhman]

no one has anything to say?!

=[

well I asked my friend and he said it's my bearings; they're going out.

can someone else chime in?

the clattering noise gets really loud at certain times; mainly at low RPMs. it sounds weird as a shift through the gears as well; like when I'm in fifth it sounds like sand blowing....that sshhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh sound.

and I'm driving without the rubber shift boot or anything covering the shifter so I can hear everything that is going on. I'll see if I can take a video of the sound for y'all.

 

[PROJECT N00b]

Being that this is the general discussion for MKIII talk, I have read in lots of threads that most of the people on this forum that use Redline also get an additive for the fluid that helps get rid of that loud ass noise. I'll link the threads when I find it.

EDIT: Found some info from the LSD thread, pretty much the same.

" 1 thing of Ford friction modifier and 3 quarts(i believe) of Redline Gear oil 75w-90. "

heres the thread

http://www.supramania.com/forums/showthread.php?t=91845&highlight=redline+fluid

 

[thinhman]

what? I thought transmission fluid and LSD fluid is different? I thought one of them does not need the friction modifier?

If it does, how does the friction modifier help internal parts gone bad, say the bearings in my case?

And by you stating that people use that additive to get rid of "that loud ass noise" meaning that many others come across this LOUD clatter; like OMG it's loud haha. Wait till I record a sound clip.

 

[TurboStreetCar]

dont put friction modifier in your transmission, the friction modifier is for the rear end with a clutch pack style limited slip.

as far as changing the oil making it worse is more so in cases of automatic transmissions.

If a manual transmission is making noises that it shouldn't be then its time for a rebuild or replacement, no fluid is going to fix it.

 

[jdub]

Being that this is the general discussion for MKIII talk, I have read in lots of threads that most of the people on this forum that use Redline also get an additive for the fluid that helps get rid of that loud ass noise. I'll link the threads when I find it.

EDIT: Found some info from the LSD thread, pretty much the same.

" 1 thing of Ford friction modifier and 3 quarts(i believe) of Redline Gear oil 75w-90. "

heres the thread

http://www.supramania.com/forums/showthread.php?t=91845&highlight=redline+fluid

You are badly confused. Red Line 75W-90 already has the friction modifier in it's formulation and is intended to be used for an LSD. If you use Ford 75W-90 differential oil, it will need the addition of a modifier...I usually start with 1 oz and go from there.

Red Line 75W-90 should never be used in a manual tranny due to the friction modifier. Tranny syncros need a certain amount of friction to work...the modifier makes the oil too "slippery". The Ford oil can be used in a tranny, but no modifier. There are better choices though...Red Line MT-90 being the best IMO. As stated, no gear oil is going to fix a busted tranny.

The 1st thing is to make sure the sound is coming from the tranny and not the drive shaft U-joints or the differential, but it sounds like the OP has done that. Are there any shift problems? Might want to take a good hard look at the clutch fly wheel and pressure plate.

 

[PROJECT N00b]

Sorry Dubster, I havent been around my supra for about 6 months now...so Im pretty shabby on my stuff. Sorry guys.:hs:

 

[thinhman]

Sorry Dubster, I havent been around my supra for about 6 months now...so Im pretty shabby on my stuff. Sorry guys.:hs:

haha no worries; everyone makes mistakes. As long as you admitted it and not let your ego take over lol...

The 1st thing is to make sure the sound is coming from the tranny and not the drive shaft U-joints or the differential, but it sounds like the OP has done that. Are there any shift problems? Might want to take a good hard look at the clutch fly wheel and pressure plate.

No, before it was a bit difficult to push it into first gear but now that's alot smoother. Overall there are no shift problems, but everytime I shift to different gears, there are different sounds (fifth gear being the most weird). There is the clatter throughout all gears, it comes and goes but when it comes its loud as hell. I shift no later than 3.5k RPM if that means anything?

Is there anyway to inspect my flywheel and pressure plate without taking it off? No right...?

Also my reverse since I got the car was hard to get into. I'll try to put it into reverse and it'll grind. I'll keep doing it until it forces itself in there. Usually it will just go right in if I drive it for the first time in the morning, but throughout the day it grinds all day.

I also understand that it might be its time to go; I just wanted to know if it was something I can fix temporarily until I manage the funds.

 

[TurboStreetCar]

reverse is a non synchronized gear, if you try to shift it too fast after depressing the clutch a grind is not unusual.

otherwise sounds like time for a rebuild.

 

[thinhman]

Here is a video recording of my tranny noises. It's that loud clattering noise, you can't miss it. Sorry for the crazy camera movements; it was hard to drive, shift, and record at the same time LOL.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZzQWIZI82HA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kLG41bshj7M

 

[Moy]

wow that is bizarre... and you're sure it's not the clutch/flywheel? I had to work on a vw golf that thought it was the trans. Same sound. Turns out it was a loose flywheel bolt.

Reverse grinding: you need to go into it slowly. As stated earlier there is no syncho on that gear, so it won't be as smooth to go into as the other gears.

I would say check the pressure plate, disc, and flywheel/bolts before you jump straight to the conclusion of "it's the trans, time for a rebuild". My .02

 

[jdub]

Might want to take a good hard look at the clutch fly wheel and pressure plate.

 

[thinhman]

This just came to my attention; is the NSS only for automatics?!

Cause I can start my car without my clutch depressed.....so that does mean my car was auto at one point? >_<

 

[grimreaper]

does it do it in neutral when you rev it?

 

[thinhman]

yeah it does, but it's a lot quieter and it isn't constant; you'll only hear the clatter a few times.

the clatter also only happens when I'm on the accelerator...don't know if that helps. and I'm dropping my tranny this sunday to inspect my flywheel and such.

 

[black89t]

yes it matters if it happens under a load(accelerataing) or not (cruise).


before you pull the tranny note whether it happens in all gears, some gears, under a load, neutral with clutch in, or with the clutch out. i'm not saying its the tranny but if you do have to get it rebuilt these are thing the shop would prefer to know.


lol. oh and to get into that magic gear reverse. after you start the car let your foot off the clutch in NEUTRAL, unset the ebrake, then put clutch back in, and your car will go into reverse perfectly. why? becuase when you just start the car and slam it into reverse none of the gears are spinning so you have to force them to mesh.

this is what happens inside when you do it right. you let your foot off the clutch in neutral. that makes every single gear in the tranny spin. at this point the only thing not spinning is the output shaft and the hubs splined to it, so it won't go into reverse perfectly just yet. when the ebrake is released this allows the output shaft to spin just a tad in either direction. so you put the clutch back in. now you have all the gears spinning and the output shaft isn't being held in one position. so the reverse idler float right between the reverse gear on the counter shaft and the one on the 1-2 sleeve thats splined to the hub thats splined to the output shaft.

i had some time to kill and thought i would enlighten everybody on how to get any tranny into reverse with minimal wear.

 

[thinhman]

wow that's good info. yeah after someone told me earlier so about the reverse I started to really watch it. Now it goes in smooth, so I'm settled with that :icon_bigg


As for the tranny, I've noted as much as I could. I'll list them for the hell of it cause class is boring as hell.

1st gear - clatter sounds the loudest
2nd - I have a whine of some sort (this was how it was when I bought it), the clatter is still there but not as loud but still substantially loud.
3rd - another whine (had this before) and the clatter
4th - clatter once again, but softer
5th - strangest yet; there is still the clatter but without all the rubber boots around the shifter I could hear like a "sand" sound. It has that sound like sand is being blown across something. Like a "ssshhhhhhh" sound.
Free rev in neutral standstill - still hear the clatter, not as often and not as loud
Free rev in neutral while in motion - can't really hear it much but I would presume it's the same as standstill
Clutch in/clutch out - both same; nothing noticeably different.


I'm not doing much to the tranny when I'm taking it out; I'm just inspecting it haha. Yeah seems like a lot of work for not much; but I want to rule out the flywheel/pressure plate/clutch concepts.

As for rebuilt I can't. I can't even afford funds for my engine atm, so yeah I'll just have to deal with the tranny if it's not a loose flywheel bolt.

 

[black89t]

^the noise doesn't really change with the clutch in you say?

if thats the case you are a lucky guy because that typically rules out the tranny as nothing is moving in there to make a noise with the clutch in. cross your fingers then pull the tranny and inspect your pp/disk.

oh and when you drained the old fluid were they any chucks of metal or shinny little flakes in it? if it was just black and old thats no problem. its the metal particles that are bad news.

 

[thinhman]

Man you know....this is pretty embarrasing to say but I'll come out with it anyways cause I prolonged this thread for a long time haha.

Throughout all this time I've always listened to it from the gearbox and never diagnosed the sound through the engine bay. So for the first time, I popped my hood and listened to the sound as the engine was running and guess what...that clatter REALLY truly sounds like rod knock instead :nono:

The more I ponder about it....the more it sounds reasonable. Haha needless to say I messed up from isolating the problem amongst the two >_<

(No, there were no metal particles from when I drained the tranny; just black and old)