tokicos or bilsteins?

[Insidious Surmiser]

cool, good to know someone has them (or has had) I would expect nothing less (than excellence from bilstein)

 

[Flateric]

I honestly did love them and if I can find a set of the adjustable ones like mine were I will likely go with them again. Sounds impossible but the ride was not at all harsh and yet they performed beyond my expectations.

I just wish that H&R still made the springs that I have so I could refresh them as well with the same again. My springs are sorta dark metallic grey IIRC, but H&R only make the red race springs now I believe. Which may be great too, but I worry they may be too harsh.

 

[Insidious Surmiser]

yeh... I just scooped a set of discontinued RS*R down springs (unused). my buddy had a set on his 200sx (rps13) and that car rode soooo nice. ride was smooth and comfortable and the springs stiffened up once you got into the corners.

I'm using the Tokico illumina II's that work with the TEMS and got a hold of the HKS TEMS controller to manually ccontrol the stiffness and over ride the self adjust feature on the fly from the cockpit. I did upgrade the springs, front, and rear sway bars to Tanabe as well. The difference was like night and day

yeah I was aware there are some controllers out there... just wondering which product is of better quality... it really is a tough call for me to ditch TEMS as I've never had a mk3 with it before.

 

[Poodles]

On our cars, KYB is OEM (without TEMS), the tokicos were I believe OEM (with TEMS), and bilsteins came on some special editions in Japan (and they make the TRD shocks).

Also, progressive springs on our cars are pointless since the way the suspension moves is progressive.

Also, on springs, they don't "wear out" without losing ride height, and ride height is easy to measure and in the TSRM... The stock springs are simply soft and make the car ride nice. If you beef up the sway bars, it will still ride nice, but won't roll so much in the corners.

If you're replacing the springs and everything though, do the sway bars after, as stiffer springs will have the same effect and in conjuction with stiffer sway bars can actually be too stiff int he corners leading to the car being unsettled over bumps int he corners.

But to get back to the original question, TEMS is nice, and there's way to make them stay on the hard setting for spirited driving.

 

[scottiedawg66]

I have the adjustable bilstiens with whiteline springs, and whiteline adjustable sway bars. I really like how my car handles. I have my bilstiens on their middle setting and its not too rough around town, and it does great for aggressive driving.

my car came with the bilstiens and whiteline springs when I bought it, and I have not driven a stock suspension MK3 so I cannot compare. The adjustable swayabars were a HUGE improvement, some of the best money I have spent on the MK3.

 

[Flateric]

Ya, sorry I should have been more specific I suppose, my H&R are worn out in such a way that they have indeed lost ride height, alot. But I have had them on the car for a VERY VERY long time. I'm guessing perhaps as long as about 17 years now. Wow, I've had my baby for 23 years now!

 

[Insidious Surmiser]

On our cars, KYB is OEM (without TEMS), the tokicos were I believe OEM (with TEMS), and bilsteins came on some special editions in Japan (and they make the TRD shocks).

Also, progressive springs on our cars are pointless since the way the suspension moves is progressive.

Also, on springs, they don't "wear out" without losing ride height, and ride height is easy to measure and in the TSRM... The stock springs are simply soft and make the car ride nice. If you beef up the sway bars, it will still ride nice, but won't roll so much in the corners.

If you're replacing the springs and everything though, do the sway bars after, as stiffer springs will have the same effect and in conjuction with stiffer sway bars can actually be too stiff int he corners leading to the car being unsettled over bumps int he corners.

But to get back to the original question, TEMS is nice, and there's way to make them stay on the hard setting for spirited driving.

Hm I'm not understanding why progressive rate springs would do nothing. Since race springs would always have a stiff spring rate. Idk if you have anything I can read up on/make sense of it, I'd love to know more about it. I was planning of keeping the stock sways to see how it handled, but probably replace the end links. I also plan to replace all the bushings I can at the same time. man I hate being so undecided though, it's really tempting to keep TEMS, although it would be more my style to toss it and go with bilsteins. I tend to like keeping things basic, and what what I've seen/driven I really like bilsteins products. I've just never seen/driven a mk3 with them.

I have the adjustable bilstiens with whiteline springs, and whiteline adjustable sway bars. I really like how my car handles. I have my bilstiens on their middle setting and its not too rough around town, and it does great for aggressive driving.

my car came with the bilstiens and whiteline springs when I bought it, and I have not driven a stock suspension MK3 so I cannot compare. The adjustable swayabars were a HUGE improvement, some of the best money I have spent on the MK3.

how did you set up your sways if you don't mind me asking? and is the car fairly neutral? or does it tend to oversteer or understeer?

The ideal setup for me would be almost neutral with a hair of oversteer.

 

[scottiedawg66]

It feels pretty balanced now. I have not been able get it on track yet and really push. But it feels great with no sign of under steer. The sway bars are on the middle setting as well. I do not have adjustable end links but I will likely invest in those once I am back to full power. sadly, I did the sway bars during my down time since the were a group buy and have not have any power to induce oversteer. I think most people run them at full tight but you might ask some of the people with more track time about specifics.

 

[Poodles]

Hm I'm not understanding why progressive rate springs would do nothing. Since race springs would always have a stiff spring rate. Idk if you have anything I can read up on/make sense of it, I'd love to know more about it. I was planning of keeping the stock sways to see how it handled, but probably replace the end links. I also plan to replace all the bushings I can at the same time. man I hate being so undecided though, it's really tempting to keep TEMS, although it would be more my style to toss it and go with bilsteins. I tend to like keeping things basic, and what what I've seen/driven I really like bilsteins products. I've just never seen/driven a mk3 with them.

It has to do with the angles in the suspension and the arc they travel through. You get a progressive setup, but with a linear spring. The few progressive springs for the MKIII juct have the "soft" part of the coil collapsed when the car is on the gorund, so they wouldn't work anyway (eibach comes to mind here).

IMHO, leave the end links alone, they're not really a weak link (except for the plastic rears which were designed to be weak so they don't rip the tabs off, but they work just fine). The whiteline swaybars I have come with new front endlinks though.

 

[hvyman]

I honestly did love them and if I can find a set of the adjustable ones like mine were I will likely go with them again. Sounds impossible but the ride was not at all harsh and yet they performed beyond my expectations.

I just wish that H&R still made the springs that I have so I could refresh them as well with the same again. My springs are sorta dark metallic grey IIRC, but H&R only make the red race springs now I believe. Which may be great too, but I worry they may be too harsh.

When I bought h and r like 6 or so years ago they were the race ones I believe and they were a very dark blue metallic not red.

Also I have some adjustable bilstiens but they need a rebuild for sure that I don't mind getting rid of.

 

[hvyman]

I honestly did love them and if I can find a set of the adjustable ones like mine were I will likely go with them again. Sounds impossible but the ride was not at all harsh and yet they performed beyond my expectations.

I just wish that H&R still made the springs that I have so I could refresh them as well with the same again. My springs are sorta dark metallic grey IIRC, but H&R only make the red race springs now I believe. Which may be great too, but I worry they may be too harsh.

When I bought h and r like 6 or so years ago they were the race ones I believe and they were a very dark blue metallic not red.

Also I have some adjustable bilstiens but they need a rebuild for sure that I don't mind getting rid of.

 

[Insidious Surmiser]

When I bought h and r like 6 or so years ago they were the race ones I believe and they were a very dark blue metallic not red.

Also I have some adjustable bilstiens but they need a rebuild for sure that I don't mind getting rid of.

hrm... I will deffinitely look into this

It has to do with the angles in the suspension and the arc they travel through. You get a progressive setup, but with a linear spring. The few progressive springs for the MKIII juct have the "soft" part of the coil collapsed when the car is on the gorund, so they wouldn't work anyway (eibach comes to mind here).

IMHO, leave the end links alone, they're not really a weak link (except for the plastic rears which were designed to be weak so they don't rip the tabs off, but they work just fine). The whiteline swaybars I have come with new front endlinks though.

Intriguing.... thanks for the tips... I'll keep that in mind (I thought eibachs were linear? I've been wrong before though)