To rebuild or not to rebuild?

[radiod]

Ok, this might end up being a lengthy post, so bear with me here.

I bought my Supra late last August. I have receipts for everything done to the car, some of which include parts and labour for an engine rebuild @ 275,000km (171875miles). During the rebuild, the head gasket was replaced with an HKS 1.5mm metal bead head gasket and ARP head stud hardware used to torque it down. Both the block and the head were resurfaced at the same engine shop that was involved all the way through the build.

This is what I face now: a 90% likely blown head gasket. All the signs I see are pointing to it...the milky residue under the oil cap, oil in the coolant in the radiator. It's not to the point of overheating at all, but I have noticed recently the car seems to heat up quite a bit faster than it used to. To be sure, I'm getting the block test done tomorrow, because well, it's something I want to be 100% sure of, not 90%.

Assuming that the head gasket is gone, I have to make a decision. I don't want to sell the car, seeing as I was searching for this thing for longer than I've had it so far. I am considering parking it though...because I have just poured way too much money into the car lately and I just simply can't afford to keep doing so. If this was the case, I'd spend like $750 on a beater car and then save up until I can afford dealing with every problem I can possibly deal with (that I know about) on the Supra so it is running properly. With that in mind, would it be wise to simply save up straight away for a complete rebuild on the motor, or just do the head gasket work (along with all the seals, belts, etc that should be done while it's off anyways)?

The other option would be just to try and squeeze by, do the head gasket now, and hope nothing else is/goes wrong because honestly if there is more....I'm screwed.

Any advice is appreciated. And on a final sidenote, has ANYONE ever heard of an aftermarket head gasket on ARP hardware with a resurfaced block and head going? I just find that part truly astounding...

 

[super supra dave]

i had something like that happen to me not to long ago with my MKIII. i got it back in sep and drove it home from they guys place. 25 miles later, it happend. BHG. i know that it happens alot to the MKIII, so i wasnt mad. i fixed it and then found a block and trans for 500. i got it from a guy how said he just didnt want to swap it in to his MKII any more(i know that it was a BHG, no one likes to work on a BHG). so i got that and was used that block to start my build. but back to the MKIII, i drove it arond for about a week and then wanted to go see my buddys that live 2 hours away. started on the trip, then a hour out i seen the temp going up, pulled over and then the line from the block to the heater core blow. i said f@#k it ill let it sit till i got the build block done. well its been about 2 mounths and im about 1000 bucks away from the last part(JE pistons and Eagel rods). i am glade i let it stay as is cuz when i pulled the motor so i could clean the engein bay, all the hoses where really old and some of them had rips and what not. so i would say just get a cheapo and drive it aroud till you get every thing done to the MKIII that you want done. do every thing new. NEW, NEW, NEW. just better that way, and it may take some time. but when your done, youll be happy you did it the right way. good luke and have a saft build.

 

[radiod]

So it's confirmed....BHG

More feedback would be very much appreciated. I want to make a decision within the next week to limit any more driving on the car.

 

[Shima]

you know it may sound stupid but maybe the studs have come lose causing pressure blah blah maybe just have a quick check and make sure there all correctly torqued. only takes a few hours and a damn lot easier than replacing the entire hg.

could be wrong but worth a try

 

[radiod]

Yeah, torque seems to be fine on the studs. Car is parked until I can get money

What should I do for storage? I know I want to probably do an oil change where it sits so that my bearings don't rust themselves away while it's parked. Any other suggestions?

 

[thesupragod]

So the engine was rebuilt at 171875miles, how many miles does the motor have on it now? I havent heard of too many cases of a blown mhg when its torqued properly, did you check the torque w/ a torque wrench, or just by hand? Have you done a compression test? if so how did you do it (did you remove all of the spark plugs)? And what was the result of the block test (was it a leakdown test)?

 

[radiod]

Shop checked the torque with a torque wrench, said it was good. Leak test turned up a slow leak. 22,000 miles have been put on the engine since the rebuild. No compression test was done, but the car has not seemed to lose any power or anything, and trust me, I would know. I'm anal about pretty much every little noise/oddity. The reason I noticed this was because my car has started getting to temperature slightly faster than normal. No real white smoke out the back. The film under the oil cap was barely visible to most.

 

[thesupragod]

Well, if the shop thinks that the torque should be at 56 ft-lbs like the TSRM specifies, then that could be an issue. Usually stock bolts w/ a MHG are torqued to somewhere in the 70-90 ft-lb area. w/ arp studs is somewhere in the 85-100 ft-lb. Have you pulled your dipstick and checked the consistancy of the oil, and color? Do you have any coolant leaks at all? I just really hate to see you spend money where its not necessary, on a beater and not drive that beauty!

 

[radiod]

Already got the beater for $600 :S. None the less, I would like some time to keep the car off the road and work through some other issues...like fuel system .

Studs were torqued to 85, so it should be fine. Dipstick oil looks fine, but under the oil cap you get the filmy milky goo. Take off the rad cap and there's slight rainbows floating on top, so I would assume that being a sign of oil in the coolant. The block test was done twice to confirm the results...definite turn from blue to green though.

One other thing I found when looking through receipts though. There's 4 head gaskets in there. Only the most recent was the aftermarket HKS, put on with the rebuild. All the others were OEM toyota gaskets. With that many blown head gaskets, would it be out of question to think cracked head?

 

[str8_6]

your bearings wont rust or anything. i had an engine laying in the garage for over a year and rebuilt it, primed the motor real good before start up, and it ran awesome.

with that many gasket repair it wouldnt suprise me that theres a sleight crack, just the more possibility of it being over heated. also you have to ask yourself if everything was done correctly, why would the head gasket go bad again?

 

[MK3PIMP]

i bet the shop just wants to make more money from you.i think u should checj every thing out the best u can

 

[radiod]

The shop is owned by one of my good friend's dad. They have 4 Supras in the family. I trust him completely with the car.

About the bearings, I would still want to change the oil though, wouldn't I? From what I've been reading, even rediculously tiny amounts of coolant in the oil can be harmful over a period of time. After a bunch of talking, I'm thinking that I'll save for a while, see if I can take off the head myself and get it to an engine shop or machine shop for inspection, hardness testing, etc. Hopefully it all ends up working out ok.

 

[Doward]

Drain and flush the motor with clean oil would be my opinion.

When you had the gasket replaced last, were the block and head checked for cracks?

 

[radiod]

I didn't personally do the head gasket last. Last time it was done, the engine was entirely rebuild. I have receipts for resurfacing work, polishing done on the crank, and a bunch of other stuff, but I didn't see an inspection on the receipts. Why it would not have been done, I don't know...but I would assume that an engine shop would check for something like that before resurfacing the block and head, wouldn't they?

 

[Doward]

Honestly? I doubt it.

I'd be PISSED if I did a full rebuild and only got 20k miles out of it.

 

[radiod]

Well, like I said before, looks like I'll be doing a bunch of the work on it myself. This way atleast I will know EVERYTHING will be done properly. I'm anal about making sure things are perfect when doing work on my own stuff. I may not care if the inside's completely clean, but if there's a mechanical problem I take care of it right aways.

Just one question, how would I go about flushing the motor when the car's sitting in my driveway...

 

[Doward]

Drain the oil, put 5 qts in. Spin motor over (efi fuse pulled) until you get full oil pressure, drain and refill again.

That's what I do, at any rate

 

[radiod]

EFI fuse pulled and crank it with the starter then? Sorry, just wasn't clear with the wording.

 

[GrimJack]

That's exactly what he means.

I've blown a MHG. Not an HKS, though - those seem to be tough as hell.

Maybe the shop neglected to pull the rivets out of the MHG that get in the way if you've had your block / head resurfaced? I've seen that before... If so, it's probably a pretty simple fix, pull off the head, pull off the gasket, either buy a new one or take it apart and clean it, pull the rivets, drop it back on, torque it down and go.