Tire Placement Myths/Stupid People Q&A

[Setheroo]

Today, I got railed by my service manager at work, because I asked him why he directed me to place a set of new tires on the front of a front wheel drive car, leaving the bald tires - in the rear.

He told me - that I need to go back to school/that I was stupid/that the front is where everything happens/blah blah blah... I didn't hear the end of it... and all of the technicians, believe the same damned thing.

It is an old myth to have the newer tires up front, hell, you can even look on Michelin's website and they tell you to have the new ones, in the rear.

So the question is, what the hell do I do about this?
I hate the fact that I am forced into doing an unsafe practice. It is terrible that I have to put some innocent persons life on the line by allowing a vehicle to leave my bay/shop with an inclined chance of instability.

Is there a way to have someone come in and "lay down the law" - or is there anything that can be done to prove my point to the thick headed?

What also sucks for me is that everyone in the shop believes that flawed theory, and now I am the "dumbass."

 

[IJ.]

Personally I'd prefer to have the newer/better tires on the steer axle no matter what end drives the car, I run staggered size tires so it's a bit of a non issue for me.

 

[Setheroo]

Personally I'd prefer to have the newer/better tires on the steer axle no matter what end drives the car, I run staggered size tires so it's a bit of a non issue for me.

But what is safest... for someone that isn't as awesome and as experienced as you are... how many common day people can properly steer themselves out of a fishtail/skid out?

I am kind of inclined to say that the rear axle does the steering, while the front wheels do the turning... try riding a little red wagon down a hill backwards, and tell me how that works out...

Oh, and I believe adjuster posted something about this myth once before... somewheres, sometime ago!

 

[IJ.]

I can see your point but as most cars are built to understeer the rears would have to be VERY bad to change the car to oversteer.

 

[Setheroo]

I can see your point but as most cars are built to understeer the rears would have to be VERY bad to change the car to oversteer.

But you need to take into account two key things. Adverse weather, and weight.

When you're driving through rain in a front wheel drive - you have most of your weight bias in the front, which helps with traction - making the front of the car less likely to hydroplane. Whereas the rear - is very likely to hydroplane due to lack of weight, especially with a bald ass set of tires in the back. Basically, those things add up to having one hell of a loss of stability while rounding a corner... at about 40mph or so.

http://www.michelinman.com/tire-care/tire-saving-tips/replacement-questions/#install-tires
Watch a video! haha

 

[IJ.]

LOL as I said I can see your point was just stating my personal preferences
(I really dislike understeer but it's far safer for the majority of drivers)

 

[emiliorescigno]

From what I've heard....

Oversteer isn't the only concern. If the car doesn't have ABS, having bald tires in the rear can increase the likelihood of the rears locking up, which leads to a total loss of control while braking, esp. with an inexperienced driver that only knows "stomp the pedal".

 

[Setheroo]

LOL as I said I can see your point was just stating my personal preferences
(I really dislike understeer but it's far safer for the majority of drivers)

IJ... at least you can see from the other side of the fence... all of the people that I work with really believe me to be a complete idiot now based off of this sole idea.

 

[IJ.]

People tend to get caught up in their "knowledge" for a long time the earth was flat, things change

 

[MA70witBoost]

lol... this is a topic of debate at my dealership too... as per my dispatcher... www.michellinman.com has a video that shows that the best tires should be on the rear to prevent oversteer. Then again, I drift so I make a habbit of controlling oversteer. I promote front wheel traction due to the fact that in excessive speed situations, if you have no traction up front you'll understeer and run off the road. Steering is affected, braking is affected. Front tire traction ftw!

 

[emiliorescigno]

Alternatively, you could try harder to convince your customers that it's worth the money to get a full matched set. There's no substitute.

 

[bfr1992t]

Come on, it's a business, the only thing they think about is making money. You have to think like them. Putting the worn tires on the drive axle, in most cases the front, they will wear faster and the sooner the customer will return for two more. Try that one on them!

 

[GrimJack]

Alternatively, you could try harder to convince your customers that it's worth the money to get a full matched set. There's no substitute.

THIS.

Failing this, make certain they know the dangers inherent in having good tires on the front and bald on the back. Advise them to drive slowly in rain on corners, especially on highways, where the rear end will break loose easily and cause uncontrollable slides.

The dumbass in this case really isn't you or your boss, it's the consumer who puts a couple hundred $$$ above their personal safety.

 

[funky_monkey58]

For the first week of winter I like to put the good snow tires on the front so I can kick out the rear and counter steer it with the good tracking winter tires up front.

 

[MA70witBoost]

Come on, it's a business, the only thing they think about is making money. You have to think like them. Putting the worn tires on the drive axle, in most cases the front, they will wear faster and the sooner the customer will return for two more. Try that one on them!

can only speak for the dealership at wich i work... we do promote tire rotations in order to extend the tire life. Not the case in a staggered tire setup seeing as you really shouldn't rotate. Then again, altho increased tire life is promoted w/ the rotation (as is preventing choppy tires) the increase in the price of the service due to the tire rotation is also there... not sure how much a difference it is tho.

 

[7Mboost]

Today, I got railed by my service manager at work,

WTF! :biglaugh:

 

[Poodles]

Adjuster DID make a post on this a while back, no idea where the thread is. The detail I remember is that it was a young girl and her dad was ripping into her about totalling her car in the rain. FWD car with bald tires on the back. It was fine in a straight line (as the rear tires are tracking the dry line from the fronts) but she took a corner and at that time the front a rear tires take different paths causing the back to hydroplane and her to lose control. He mentioned drawing a diagram in the dried mud on the car...

I know that Discount Tire won't rotate your tires or do ANYTHING to your car if tire wear it below the wear markers in any way. This is to protect themselves from being sued.

 

[KicknAsphlt]

I was always under the impression that you put the good tires on the non-drive wheels (whether front or rear) and rotate the good but used tires to the drive wheels....but then again, I never claimed to be right...lol. Good to learn something new.

 

[Jeff Lange]

There are merits to both sides of this theory, however I would very strongly suggest that bald tires not be put on the car in any position, front or rear.

Typically speaking on a FWD car, the front tires will wear faster, as such, provided all 4 tires have at least 3/32" of tread, I'd suggest the tires with more tread always go on the front.

If you have tires that are balding, they should be discarded. If you insist on using them, there are risks involved. I would suggest that having them on the front will allow you to know the limits of the car more readily. You will immediately feel how much traction you have and attempt to keep it under control. If you have bald in the rear and good in the front, it will give the illusion of control until your rear is not tracking the front and you lose traction in the back.

The flip side to that is that you will also have less braking ability as the front does most of the braking, steering, accelerating, etc.

I don't know what I would do in that situation, I would thoroughly explain everything to the car's owner and let them make the decision after being informed. My ONLY advice would be to replace all 4 tires, anything less than that is on his head should anything happen.

Jeff

 

[Mk3runner]

I personally like my meat *tires* to be on the steer axle. if all else at least I got the most possible control in whatever direction I decide to point the wheel.