TIMING

[ginglesturbo]

ok i have set my timing like 10 times now...it wont get right...i am seting the motor at tdc and putting in the cam sensor with the hole lined up with the groove. it runs ok when i do that but then i fine tune it with my ear...(timing lights broke?wont work ? somethin?) but it seems to run fine...then i take it for a ride and it fuckes all up again and starts backfiring and runnin like shit....do i need a new cps? also my ecu is remanufactered ...could that be it? im stuck on this one ...someone help!!

 

[dugums]

Get a functioning timing light.

There is no point speculating what might be broken until you actually follow the TSRM directions for setting ignition timing. Since you need a timing light to do that, go get one.

When you set timing do not forget to jump the diagnostic block as instructed in the TSRM. Many people decide to try and set ignition timing without doing this. I cannot figure out why - it is an important part of the process.

The best thing you could do is to follow the manual EXACTLY. That means not only following the instructions for setting timing, but also using the troubleshooting guide to see if it offers any help.

It is much easier to help you if you have gone through these steps.

 

[jdub]

When you line up the CPS, does it look like the pic I posted (post #4) with the cam gears and crank aligned (like I said) in the other thread?

Is the bolt that holds the CPS to the head tightened down snug when you align it?

This just sets the initial valve timing...you DO need a timing light to set final timing per above. Use the #1 or #6 plug wire for the inductive lead on the light and jumperer the Diagnostic Block:
http://www.cygnusx1.net/supra/Library/TSRM/MK3/manual.aspx?S=IG&P=20

And what do you mean by "ECU is remanufactured"...how do you know that?

 

[ginglesturbo]

ya it looks just like that....but when i take it off again it looks moved way more than i can turn it by the little adjuster...like i said it runs fine at first but then it starts misfiring...i got cheap plugs in it but just for the tuning cause i know im gonna be goin thru them doing the timing. should i get better plugs for doing it? im getting a new timing light tonight. and i know it is remanufactured because it doesnt say toyota on it anywhere or 7m or mt its just silver and it says remanufactered on it

 

[jdub]

When you say "looks moved way more than i can turn it by the little adjuster" is that with both cam gears pointing at the index and the crank pointing at zero? This is critical...the CPS should look like the pic ONLY under the above conditions.

And, did the car run normally with this ECU in the past?

 

[ginglesturbo]

ya valve timing is good but its like its moving the cps i think its maby cause i put it in with the adjuster pointed down a litlle... i dono i got another cps i think im gonna try that too, but im on the way to go get as timing light now...if its not rainin when i get back ill try again

 

[IwantMKIII]

you can rent timing lights for like $5, more than likely this is your problem....your ear can be deceiving. If i just lightly move my CPS it simply jumps 5 degrees with a timing light, couldn't imagine what it would be if i did it by my ear.

 

[jdub]

ya valve timing is good but its like its moving the cps i think its maby cause i put it in with the adjuster pointed down a litlle... i dono i got another cps i think im gonna try that too, but im on the way to go get as timing light now...if its not rainin when i get back ill try again

This is confusing...what are you calling the "adjuster" on the CPS?
The rotating piece in the CPS is called the "reluctor"...you haven't tried to rotate it have you?


Is there any play in the timing belt? If so, how much can you move the belt along the sides (left/right)? Look at this:
http://www.cygnusx1.net/supra/Library/TSRM/MK3/manual.aspx?S=EM&P=30

The tensioner has to be set correctly...If the belt is loose, it can skip a tooth on the gears...that will cause the timing to change dramatically

Did you re-use the old timing belt after the HG swap? How about the tensioner too? Was the spring in good shape on the tensioner?

 

[drjonez]

...any play in the timing belt? If so, how much can you move the belt along the sides (left/right)?...

bingo.

 

[ginglesturbo]

ok its not the valve timing its the spark timing...that is what a light is for......i just got a new one so when it gets a little darker out ill use it i know the belt is tight and it is in time. but can spark timing knock off valve timing? i dont think so but anyways...im gonna try again with the proper steps from the tsrm...i didnt hook up the wire on the dignosis port last time either...so im gonna go thru all the steps this time no shortcuts and we'll se what happens.

 

[jdub]

can spark timing knock off valve timing?

No it can't...but from your description, it sure as heck looks like valve timing to me. Plus, I keep asking questions and get vague (or no) answer. It sure seems you're hell bent to wander down the path you think regardless of what anyone says. There's no point in any further input :3d_frown:

 

[drjonez]

...It sure seems you're hell bent to wander down the path you think regardless of what anyone says. There's no point in any further input :3d_frown:

yup. if you want to wallow in stupidity, so be it. :3d_frown:

 

[IwantMKIII]

new point to consider.....spark plug wires. You say it happens when you drive it around, well, did you ever let it warm up to op temps and let the engine bay temps get high?

Resistance dramatically changes with heat and will even more so affect performance and cause problems like this. My buddy's girlfriend's car had this problem. was fine idling for a long time, after a short drive and things heat up, backfires and runs like shit, barealy any power

 

[ginglesturbo]

nai never let it warm up in fact i let it cool down so i could take off the little turbo water line comin from the thermostat and it wouldnt spew all over me.... anyways its foggy as shit and has been since 6 here so im gonna get back at it tomorow after work if its not rainin. ill check my valve timing before but i never did it the way the tsrm says so im sure thats gonna help(i hope) anyways ill post more tomorow...thanks for all the help so far

 

[ginglesturbo]

na i never let it warm up in fact i let it cool down so i could take off the little turbo water line comin from the thermostat and it wouldnt spew all over me.... anyways its foggy as shit and has been since 6 here so im gonna get back at it tomorow after work if its not rainin. ill check my valve timing before but i never did it the way the tsrm says so im sure thats gonna help(i hope) anyways ill post more tomorow...thanks for all the help so far

 

[7MGTEsup]

Erm timing is suppost to be set with the engine at full operating temp.

 

[thevork]

Erm timing is suppost to be set with the engine at full operating temp.

Indeed.
Wait untill the car runs at about 800rpm or lower.

And please tell us you did not forget to jump the T1 and TE1 with a wire or paperclip on your diagnostics plug ?

 

[ginglesturbo]

ya i didnt jump it at first thats why i think it wont get right but its rainin like hell here i hope its not when i get off work...im workin outside..i got no shop but im gonna go thru all the steps at aperating temp...but when i jump it off t1 and te1 the tach stops working ...so i just have to listen to rpm at that point i cant have someone in the car telling me what its at...or do i just put it in once and not leave it there? i dono..l im gonna try again when i get off work tho

 

[thevork]

It's simple:
Start your car and let it idle for 1- to 15 minutes. Then it's at operating temp.
You don't have to watch rpm all the time. At cold idle it will be around 1700rpm (more or less) and the rpms will drop as the car warms up.
Just confirm that the car is idling somewhere between 650 and 800 rpm before setting timing. if idle is high, check for vacuum leaks first.

When the car is warm, connect the T1 and TE1 using a short wire or paperclip or something.
After that, connect your light to the 1st or 6th spark plug wire. Don't disconnect any hoses and keep the car running if you can.

Then loosen the CPS arm bolt. Check timing and see if it is around 10 degrees BTDC. The numbers are on the lower cambelt cover (the metal part).

If the timing is off, move the cps arm (while the engine is running ofcourse) until you get it right. Do not use your ear. use your eyes. tuning by ear is for those shitty-built GM V8 engines.

If you get the timing at 10 degrees btdc, tighthen the bolt. If you cannot get it right, please shut down the engine, remove and re-insert the CPS properly. After that check the timing again until you get it right.

While the engine is still running remove the wire between the T1 and TE1 on your diagnose connector. Check if the timing goes from 10 degrees btdc to about 13 degrees btdc. Then the timing will be correct.

Good luck.

 

[IwantMKIII]

out of curiousity....WHAT IF, your idle never goes to 6-800 EXCEPT at warm up period? Like mine . and NO i do not have vacuum leaks and ISC checked ok per TSRM; it might be the valve behind the ISC that could be bad but would it be a big deal if idle wasn't low?