Timing Issue, Need Help Please!

[fonz87]

I got a bad timing Issue since last year and it's really annoying the shit now since i m actually drive the car now more than last year, i took it out on the highway and it jerks a little when driving around 70 to 80 ish or more, its jerks a little every 10 sec or 20 sec
I checked my timing, the crank is at 0 degree but the cams, which i marked them, it's 180 degree off. I know there suppose to be on TDC when the crank is on 0 degree while the car is running but they aren't.
I did have a vacuum leaks which i found all of them, i think but not sure where to look. I was checking if my vacuum lines working, what i noticed is that, the vacuum line that my fuel regulator is connect to is working, when i take it off and put my finger of it, i can feel it sucking, but when take my line of the throttle body, no sucking or blowing air or the EGR lines, Not sure, if they should be working or not ? Need Help guys, i just want this problem solved!

I m throwing no codes, but i will check again, I have NGK spark plugs, Bosch Spark plug wires, Air filter and Blitz cat back exhaust, no dp, stock motor.

Sorry it's a lot of reading but i need help!

thanks

 

[shaeff]

Turn the crank one more revolution. It takes two revolutions of the crank for the cam gears to spin once.

Your car likely wouldn't run if your timing was that far off.

Did you set the ignition timing to 10* BTDC? (Via the CPS) If so, did you jumper Te1 and e1 in the diagnostic block when doing so?

 

[fonz87]

Yea i believe i turn the crank twice, i m saying that, when the car is running now, the timing is messing up by it self, when checking timing with the gun, the cams would be 180 off, even though when i set up the timing to TDC both crank on 0 and cams on TDC with piston 1 TDC.

Btw, what do you mean by 10* on the CPS, i set up the CPS to TDC also after doing the timing, not sure what you mean by 10*

I m idling around 650, instead 850......

 

[shaeff]

Btw, what do you mean by 10* on the CPS, i set up the CPS to TDC also after doing the timing, not sure what you mean by 10*

I m idling around 650, instead 850......

Read below, it should answer your question thoroughly.

If your tensioner, gears, and belt are in good shape, your timing isn't messing itself up. If it were slipping that much, your car wouldn't run.

What I'm trying to tell you is that when you think your cam gears are 180* out (notches facing down), you need to turn the crank one more revolution to get them to line up at 12 o'clock. That's normal. For every two revolutions of the crank pulley, the cam gears spin only ONCE.

If you have your cam/crank timing set at 0*, that means that your crank is at 0*, and that your cam notches are pointing straight up, at the 12 o'clock position. (Should line up with the notches on the rear timing cover)

Once you have that set up, align the CPS like the pic in this link. In fact, just read this link and hopefully it'll cover all you need.

http://www.supramania.com/forums/showthread.php?t=38775&highlight=install+CPS*

To set the base timing, you must have the crank at 0* according to the front timing plate. Make sure the #1 cylander is at TOP DEAD CENTER. (Look in the #1 spark plug hole with a flashlight, or use a small socket extension to "feel" how far up the piston is- but be careful!) Align the notch in the crank pulley with the 0* mark. Make sure the #1 cylander is at TDC (top dead center) next, align the cam gear's notches with the notches in the back plate just behind the cam gears. When you install the timing belt, make sure nothing moves! everything MUST be at 0*.

To align the CPS:

Align the two red marks to set the IGNITION timing to 0*. Remember that the CPS has a helical cut gear and that the "rotor" will spin when you insert the CPS into the head. You must turn the CPS one tooth in the opposite direction when installing it, with the BASE (read: cam/crank) timing at 0*.

(Direct link here: http://s29.photobucket.com/albums/c295/shaeff/?action=view&current=cpsalligntext.jpg )

Once you have this set, place a jumper wire in diagnostic terminals TE1 and E1 (like you're checking codes). Start the car, let it warm up to operating temperature. Using a timing light, place the pickup on #1 or #6 spark plug wire. Connect the + and - to the battery, and loosen the CPS bolt, but don't turn it at all!

You're now going to set the ignition timing. (When the sparkplugs will fire in relation to the piston's position) You need to look at the lower timing cover near the crank pulley. See those numbers down there? 0,5,10, etc...? Those are used for setting ignition timing. Shine the timing light at the crank pulley and those timing marks. You will notice that the notch on the crank pulley appears to stop. What you're going to do now, is rotate the CPS until the notch lines up with the 10* mark on the lower timing cover. MAKE SURE YOU HAVE TE1 AND E1 JUMPED IN THE DIAGNOSTIC BLOCK!!!

Once you have that notch lined up with 10* on the lower cover, tighten the bolt on the CPS so it can't move. Make sure it doesn't rotate when you're tightening it, as that will screw up your IGN timing. Once that bolt is tight, remove the wires for the timing light, remove the jumper in the diagnostic block, and take it for a ride.

 

[fonz87]

I get what your saying, the thing is, everytime i set up my timing to TDC and everything, It changes timing by itself, i know its sounds impossible but my car, it's possible i guess, i m going to try to reset my timing again to TDC and CPS to TDC and go from there, if anything messed up, i will post for more help.

 

[fonz87]

so i re did the timing again today and drove the car and boosted a little and go home, check the timing, Yep, the cams are 180* off and crank is on 0* ! why is it doing that!

 

[jetjock]

Lmao....

 

[Bass_Man]

Do you understand this when crank is rotated from 0 to 360 degrees cams are rotated from 0 to 180 degrees . And when crank is rotated one more time from 0 to 360 degrees ( total 720 degrees ) cams are rotated one more time with 180 degrees ( total 360 degrees ) . 720 degrees on crank = 360 degrees on cams and 360 degrees on crank = 180 degrees on cams or little more simple 2 revolutions on crank = 1 revolution on cams and 1 revolution on crank = 0.5 ( half ) revolution on cams . I just try to figure out do you understand that ?

 

[shaeff]

Turn the crank one more revolution. It takes two revolutions of the crank for the cam gears to spin once.

Your car likely wouldn't run if your timing was that far off.

Did you set the ignition timing to 10* BTDC? (Via the CPS) If so, did you jumper Te1 and e1 in the diagnostic block when doing so?

Read below, it should answer your question thoroughly.

If your tensioner, gears, and belt are in good shape, your timing isn't messing itself up. If it were slipping that much, your car wouldn't run.

What I'm trying to tell you is that when you think your cam gears are 180* out (notches facing down), you need to turn the crank one more revolution to get them to line up at 12 o'clock. That's normal. For every two revolutions of the crank pulley, the cam gears spin only ONCE.

If you have your cam/crank timing set at 0*, that means that your crank is at 0*, and that your cam notches are pointing straight up, at the 12 o'clock position. (Should line up with the notches on the rear timing cover)

Once you have that set up, align the CPS like the pic in this link. In fact, just read this link and hopefully it'll cover all you need.

http://www.supramania.com/forums/showthread.php?t=38775&highlight=install+CPS*

Sigh...

 

[jdub]

:runaway:

 

[fonz87]

wow, i guess you guys didn't really read my question right so let me state it again, This is when the car is "RUNNING", I need to know if it's "NORMAL" for cams to be 180* off when the Crank is at 0* when the car is "RUNNING", Is' it suppose to be 180 off ??

 

[dumbo]

:slap:

fonz is your 7M a two stroke?

But what are the odds its always landing less than 360* out when he shuts it off everythime!!?! lol

 

[dumbo]

wow, i guess you guys didn't really read my question right so let me state it again, This is when the car is "RUNNING", I need to know if it's "NORMAL" for cams to be 180* off when the Crank is at 0* when the car is "RUNNING", Is' it suppose to be 180 off ??

How the hell can you tell, there always spinning haha.

 

[fonz87]

How the hell can you tell, there always spinning haha.

read my whole first question... i marked them with white out, If you guys need a fuckin video of this to prove this, i will take a video to make you guys happy

Some of you guys not understanding my question, i marked my cams with white out and when the car is running when should the light on the crank, you will see the mark on 0* when the car is running and when you should the light on the cams, its 180 on, hence the marks are been shown pointing downwards, I have a friends old timing gun so it has two settings 2 cycles or 4 cycles, and i know that crank has to be turned twice in order for the cams to be TDC, i know that but my question is, why is my cams 180 off for every 2 cycle of the Crank, if you don't understand this question, i will take a video of it first thing in the morning.

 

[Zumtizzle]

ohh god.


FONZ if the car was 180 off it wouldn't run.

Everytime the crank reads 0 the piston is at the top. Watch the cams everytime the piston is at the top. Now keep turning the crank until the crank says 0 and the cams line up.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xm4OmiVH2J0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cIrA4iWkhbE&feature=related

Look at 5:11 on the second vid. But do all of us a favor and watch these vids or sell the car.

Thats what shaeff is referring to. Or pay a local owner to set the timing with a timing light. THANKS.

 

[jetjock]

I understood everything in the 3rd post. About running, etc, and using the light on the cams. Doesn't change a thing. You're the one confused...

 

[fonz87]

I might have figured it out what it is, i will check tomorrow, if it's, i m sorry to all for this thread and my stupidity, but if it's still fucked up, i will video it and post it up on here.

 

[jdub]

Zum - That is priceless!

Fonz - it's simple, the cams rotate 1/2 turn for every rotation of the crank. The timing gun is synchronized with the crank. Whiteout on the cams tells you nothing...it's useless...timing is set at the crank. Why would you want to check something that provides useless info?