Close enough. Just gotta find another designer who made a better head than GM. Lots of them out there, and they may not have used a flow bench honestly.
Thoughts on FFIM's and throttle response
- Thread starter turbotank88
- Start date
turbotank88;2068194 said:Interesting. The hose nozzle likeness makes sense. I'm currently running 2.5 hardpipes myself albeit still on stock pipe routing. Really I'm not looking to push the boundaries that much, possibly high 300's-low 400's.This project is going to be mostly sliding sideways, so high horsepower isn't really necessary. With limited rpm's on the 7M I figured that torque and response would be more important by putting more emphasis of the powerband at lower revs. Unless I'm going about this the wrong way, please correct me
Interesting concept of setting your throttle body sideways like that. First I've see of that type of design from other 7M's I've seen, nice setup btw!
oh ok nice! with a lower hp goal making it responsive is much easier. it becomes difficult or near impossible to have a responsive setup with larger turbos. id say anything over a 62mm is going to be horrible for autox or drifting or track days cause the lag factor. that's why they have quick spool valves but you don't see them on smaller frame turbos cause you don't need one. along with other things like ffim, cast exhaust mani, ect will help spool and response.
really something as simple as a 57 trim ct26 would get you to your goal. not low 400's but mid to high 300's. the only thing i don't like about them is the exhuaust wheel and housing aren't designed to flow the amount of air the 57mm can. so it pulls hard then falls on its face around 5000rpm. a bolt on with the larger exhuast housing and wheel would be ideal. ive seen a sp6262 but thats over kill for you goal and will just contribute to more lag. a 5858 would get you to your goal nicely with a little room for more hp if you'd like but i don't know if they have a bolt on version.
or if you have the time and budget you could piece together a setup with a t3 or t4 turbo. i first had a hx35 on my na-t and it was a very responsive turbo! would work great for your goal. on 15-16 psi that will land you right around 400whp too. and they're cheap and tough which is a plus. only reason i got rid of it was cause my itch to go faster at drags and on race gas it made 476whp but dropped off power really bad in higher rpm cause it was past its efficency range. basicallly what the ct26 does trying to make 350-400whp. at autox i sure miss the response and lower rpm spool the hx35 had but its still raceable. anything bigger though and itd be like racing with a na motor in first and second gears :rofl:
Just for some perspective, my car did 320rwhp/360ft-lbs with a stock turbo and a FFIM. I had other mods, but the powerband is helped a lot by the FFIM, better flowing IC, and shorter piping. If you can build your own or buy a good one for a decent amount of money, I would suggest doing it.
With more fuel and a bigger turbo (even an upgraded CT), you shouldn't have any trouble hitting 400rwhp.
With more fuel and a bigger turbo (even an upgraded CT), you shouldn't have any trouble hitting 400rwhp.
black89t;2068307 said:
Good stuff black89t. Thanks for your insight! :bigthumb:
Enraged;2068405 said:
Edit. I see that your FFIM was custom from your build thread. Interesting design.
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I might end up redoing it. I learned a lot through the build process. I like the Ross Machine Racing style.
RacerXJ220;2068286 said:
The day the aftermarket manufactures a head for the 7M and it is a modern alloy and with a little bit thicker deck is the day I buy an aftermarket head. It only needs to flow a little bit better.
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You can always just turn up the boost 
2JZ Billet heads are already being tested. Nothing is impossible, but cash flow may involve selling a house.
We are comparing oranges to apples all over the place.
2JZ Billet heads are already being tested. Nothing is impossible, but cash flow may involve selling a house.
We are comparing oranges to apples all over the place.
RacerXJ220;2068535 said:You can always just turn up the boost
2JZ Billet heads are already being tested. Nothing is impossible, but cash flow may involve selling a house.
We are comparing oranges to apples all over the place.
Why can't fruit be compared?
As badass as an aftermarket 7m head would be it's never going to happen. Look at the LIPP FFIM for example.
On the topic of FFIM's how much of a difference in powerband is the intake runner ports going to have overall? More specifically the transition from the manifold's main chamber to the runners.
Ive seen some with nice transitions machined in, and i've seen others with mini velocity stacks welded in there.
Any thoughts?
kotu100;2068553 said:
The vast majority are making work for themselves with no gains with the FFIM. Meaning most that converted because they think it looks good and they can't change spark plugs. Pull the stock unit and send it in in for abrasive media hone and polish. If Extrude Hone can make a piece of shit stock Ford 5.0 manifold good, think what it can do with the Toyota plenum that doesn't have a distributor pushing the runners out of position.
I would swap a 2JZ engine before converting just the manifold. But that is just me. If you want to lay down 500rwhp with a 7M, that is a different story.
kotu100;2068553 said:
This was another question I had while thinking about FFIM's. So far this thread has given me valuable info leading me to also think about other supporting factors such as turbo size and pipe routing that affect engine response and torque. There was Sethron71's thread regarding his manifolds that interested me in FFIMs in the first place.
http://www.supramania.com/forums/sh...olds-Exhaust-Manifolds-and-other-custom-parts
Looking through the thread, most of the posts were regarding power numbers, (having shorter runners have better results for those aiming for high horsepower), but nothing regarding the actual powerband characteristics.
Cylinder three and four are the only two cylinders run off the throttle body, then.
Cylinders one and two seem to be fed only from the IACV.
Cylinders one and two seem to be fed only from the IACV.
Cylinder 3 and 4 are known to be the worse fed by TB.
I would love to see a cut view of 7M stock manifold.
Here are nice informations: http://www.celicasupra.com/forums/showthread.php?44651-How-to-clean-out-your-EGR-system-(56k-beware)
I would love to see a cut view of 7M stock manifold.
Here are nice informations: http://www.celicasupra.com/forums/showthread.php?44651-How-to-clean-out-your-EGR-system-(56k-beware)
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turbotank88;2068578 said:
See my dyno curve above. Tons of torque down low. I did it after seeing Dr Jonez's dyno curve, huge area under the curve. Makes driving it quite fun. You can also change the powerband up/down by changing the length of the intake runners, changing the volume of the intake manifold, bellmouth/velocity stacks, etc.