The Official N/A Upgrade FAQ

GotToyota?

Dedicated Member
Apr 6, 2005
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Read the whole thread before making a decision on mods. This first post isn't completely accurate but I decided to leave it in it's original form so you could see the debates and stuff in the thread.
-Ma70.Ent


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I'm mainly doing this to 1) help out people wanting to know how to upgrade their N/A's, and to 2) make it so people do not make the usual "what upgrades should I do to my N/A" threads. Below, I'll state what the reasonable upgrades are, what your routes are, and how you can get these parts. Goes from more simple, to mild, to extreme. Mods can edit this anytime if you'd like to organize/tweak this thread.

Intake
First, you need to get that engine breathing better. Start giving it more oxygen by adding an upgraded intake to it. The most restrictive part of the stock intake system is the airbox, so buy something like the K&N FIPK to replace the airbox. You can also just get a filter/adapter on Ebay for pretty cheap, I bought mine for $20, works nearly the same.

Exhaust
This is somewhat of a controversial subject as far as exhaust systems go for N/A's. One thing you need to realize before upgrading your exhaust is that backpressure on a naturally aspirated engine is your enemy! An increase in backpressure will result in a loss of power, which is what you wanna stay away from. So you people with your 3" exhausts, you've actually lost power. The most reasonable size to use when doing your exhaust is 2.5". You're upgrading to a bigger size thus adding abit more power, and you don't have to worry about backpressure. And as far as sound goes, it's up to you on the muffler you want to use and if you want to use a test pipe/cat. I personally kept the stock cat and added a resonator so the sound was more deep and not very loud, sounds great. You can also look into getting a test pipe, but that is illegal in some states/counties and I will not go into any depth concerning that.

EDIT by Ma70.Ent: Read this thread for more info.

http://www.supramania.com/forums/showthread.php?t=49151

Headers
If you've already added an upgraded exhaust, a header might be advised if you'd like to get the full flow out of your system. OBX and Pacesetter are just some of the companies that make these upgradeable headers, but unfortunately due to what many users have stated, they need to be modified in order to fit. If you are in a situation where you do want to get one, 935 Motorsports (who is a sponsor on here) sells these manifolds already modified to fit, as well as some that are 2.5" all the way out to maximize flow.

Porting/polishing
This is more of a mild mod, but can be the one of the most expensive mods if you go into more and more detail with the shop you choose to work with. Remember when I said flow was the key? It's the same concept here. The stock y-pipe and the intake manifold are pretty restrictive, take the time to hollow everything out (you can polish it if you want bling, and easy to clean areas), to get the best flow possible from your parts.

1-piece driveshaft
Everyone has gotten into the situation at one time or another where their carrier bearing has gone bad. Not only does this affect performance, but the weight of the stock driveshaft is unbearable, at nearly 30+ lbs, you have to give alot of effort at times to get what you want out of your car. Get rid of this problem by going with a 1 piece driveshaft, this will put less stress of your effort to accelerate, making the rotation mass less. You can either choose steel or aluminum, but I recommend steel as it's around 15 lbs, aluminum is around 11 lbs, but I personally think it's too extreme if you're staying N/A. Jawsgear is one company that sells these driveshafts, and they're on the forums as well. You can also go to a local welding shop in your area if you want to save some $.

Lightened flywheel
This of course applies to those with a manual transmission. The idea with these lighter parts is to give you less rotation mass, making driving easier as you give less effort because you've lowered the mass. A lightened flywheel is something that can help out in this. With this application, you will see throttle response, as well as easier shifting/throttle ease. The idea is to get rid of the rotation mass as much as possible.

Smaller/lightened wheels
This upgrade certainly isn't necessary (but then again, none of these are ;)) but it certainly does help. Find some aftermarket/stock wheels that are lighter then the sawblades or whatever wheels you have currently. I'd personally recommend the 3rd gen RX-7 wheels, as they are very light, and a simple 5 spoke design. This upgrade will lighten your car, give you easier braking power, and not give as much trouble when accelerating (will give you better throttle response basically).

Lightened body parts/weight reduction
This is of course for the enthusiast that wants to go "all out" and wants to of course compromise the stock look of the car. Lighten the somewhat heavy Supra by dropping a few pounds. One of the easiest ways to start off is to get ahold of a CF/fiberglass hood. The stock hood is quite heavy, and you'll save more then a dozen pounds by doing so. There are no other lightened body parts that I know of, but you can always make custom fenders/hatches if you really wanted to go all out. As far as interior weight reduction goes, the seats are something that should be replaced with a lighter aftermarket application. Ebay sells some generic Bride replica seats that are very light, and grip you very well, they're around $350 dollars (just an idea of what Ebay offers). You can also take out the backseats, as well as the spare tire board and the spare tire/accessories to go along with it. This is of course another upgrade for the hardcore enthusiast. It is recommend to relocate the battery to the rear if you take out alot of weight from the back.


Raise the compression/build the head, aftermarket pistons
Again, this is advanced modding. Time to go with an aftermarket MHG to raise the compression. Thickness for the MHG depends on how much you need to mill off the head, then you go from there. I'd suggest a 1.2MM HG if you have a normal head/block. If you have alot of warping however, 2MM might be the way to go. Also, buy aftermarket pistons that are slightly bored over, you might as well if you want to raise the compression and get the full benefit of your motor.

Fuel and timing
If you have done enough mods, you will know that there is always more that you want. Well, a simple way to benefit more from your mods is to raise the stock timing. The stock timing according to TSRM spec is around 10 degrees. Raise the timing to 12-14, depending on how extreme you wanna go (but be warned, you must go with higher octane fuel if you raise the timing). If you wanted to go the extra mile, you could also get an SAFC to fully tune and take advantage of your powerband.


Ignition

To key is to get better spark. High output capacitive discharge sparks ensure complete combustion of the fuel mixture especially at high rpm. You don't want your system to fail because of your ignition system. MSD along with a few other companies make ignition systems for decent prices.

Cams
This is a mod for those going the next step. Since you'll be N/A, it's recommended to go with a mild set of cams, too extreme and you won't be running so good unless you have the supporting mods. There is an online website that regrinds your stock cams to around 244 degrees, which is mild enough for an N/A wanting to go the extra mile. http://www.webcamshafts.com/toyota-auto.html

-Matt
 

Ma70.Ent

Supramania Contributor
Feb 26, 2006
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GotToyota? said:
So you people with your 3" exhausts, you've actually lost power

There are some people with 3'' exhausts who have felt no power loss at any point. So I don't think you should be saying this unless you really confirm it.

GotToyota? said:
You can also take out the backseats, as well as the spare tire board and the spare tire/accessories to go along with it.

This is usually not suggested since you're removing the weight off the back of the car (which is where it is needed to have traction)

Also... Advanced timing to 14-16 BTDC if you run premium 91-93 (which you should always) always helps.
 

Ma70.Ent

Supramania Contributor
Feb 26, 2006
1,871
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4cefed.com said:
Ignition - while the turbo's ignition system is pretty decent, the n/a's can use some improvement once you've done all the bolt-ons. On the dyno I gained no power with the ignition on or off with my mods. Checking for increase in spark it was VERY noticeably stronger with the HKS unit but there was no extra power to be had. There are many choices here since its pretty much all universal. All of them except the HKS system require a tach adapter and a extra high performance coil.

Hmm.
 

Nick M

Black Rifles Matter
Sep 9, 2005
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3 inch exhaust is too big. You will lose velocity and scavenging. There is a balance point between backpressure and lost velocity. 2.5 is even pushing it. Yes, it is confirmed. The mod that makes it sound better does not make it faster.

Increase compression from chaning pistons, not by taking material off the sealing deck.

And lose some weight.

Nice article. You put some thought and time into it.
 

Kai

That Limey Bastard
Staff member
There was information on the UK Mk3 forums about the GpA Supra Rally cars of the 1980's and 1990's and there were some pretty hot N/A's racing.

The way they squeezed more HP out of them was increasing the compression to 11.3:1 - although how they did that, i'm not sure. Would i be correct in saying that it was a combination of Higher compression pistons and skimmed head, or could that be accomplished with pistons on their own?
 

supramacist

Banned
Apr 8, 2006
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The Grassy Knole
On my stock air intake. I have taken the air filter housing and have dremeled the front face off of it. Now you can see the k&n inside. All I have to do is get the passenger lamp hood scoop. Or run it down to the nose of the car.

Filters are still 50$ But I still keep the afm. I have been down with a bhg and are about to begin the rebuild. A winter project.
 

Nick M

Black Rifles Matter
Sep 9, 2005
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You can deck the head, have it machined, that is the same thing. That will make the combustion chamber smaller. You can change pistons to one that does not have deep valve reliefs. They will both increase compression.

Increasing the stroke will change the compression with no other changes also.
 

89Joe

POTATOES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Jul 22, 2005
300
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Missouri
This is long overdue! You guys need this! also!


Below is an assortment of threads with "N/a Power" in mind.
Please realize these are in no particular order, and one might be better then the other.

Ideas on what you should upgrade.
http://www.supramania.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16948

N/a Powerr.
http://www.supramania.com/forums/showthread.php?t=30526

This is one by Robert up at 935motorsport.com Great stuff here
http://www.supramania.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15997

"Best mods for our N/a's."
http://www.supramania.com/forums/showthread.php?t=27523

hot titz for intake ideas!
http://www.supramania.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22970

N/a tuning ideas.
http://www.supramania.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24145

Some more stuff on intakes and porting and polishing.
http://www.supramania.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24839

Below are good threads with ideal topics related to your request

This is a good one to get a taste of what one person is doing to gain some power
http://www.supramania.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16000

This was an intense thread about N/a power
http://www.supramania.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21090

Try this out! You might like to try a Supercharger!
http://www.supramania.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20426&page=9

This is Will's (s383mmber1) ported out intake.
http://www.supramania.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19931&page=4

More info, might give you an idea on how to make a "13.9(s) N/A"
http://www.supramania.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19032

Heres some more on "N/a power!"
http://www.supramania.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19944

Heres a thread with a post by Bishop92t
http://www.supramania.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17807

Some info on n/a-t topic
http://www.supramania.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17497

Heres a good one for mods and gains!
http://www.supramania.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15983

And last, this is the thread that started the section
http://www.supramania.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15977
 

AGlobalThreat

Acceleration
Apr 4, 2005
991
0
0
Santa Clarita
Nick M said:
3 inch exhaust is too big. You will lose velocity and scavenging. There is a balance point between backpressure and lost velocity. 2.5 is even pushing it. Yes, it is confirmed. The mod that makes it sound better does not make it faster.

Wrong. Go dyno and come back to us. This is no 1.8l 4 banger, this is a 3l i6, which will increase power going from 2.5" catback to 3". How do I know? Because I did it. 2.5" pushing it? Me along with SEVERAL other people have gotten a great increase in power going from 2.5 to 3 inch exhausts, and this is no "make it sound better but not faster" mod, the gain is obvious.

People will never understand the 7mge :nono:, well, Allan does :icon_surp
 

supramacist

Banned
Apr 8, 2006
1,501
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The Grassy Knole
Hey global....., Are you saying you only went to 3 inch from the cat down???

It reads like that.

x87...., Get a dremel. It's not hard to port your own intake and manifold. Don't take the dremel to the head though.
 

AGlobalThreat

Acceleration
Apr 4, 2005
991
0
0
Santa Clarita
Down? Where do u get the down from there is no down in the exhaust system unless ur talking about downpipes ;). I'm talking about a 3" catback, which is the exhaust after the cat

I had a heatwrapped pacesetter header modified with a 2.5" collector, to a 3" catless straight exhaust.

Previous was stock header with a cat with a 2.5" exhaust to a 3" muffler

And no this was not done all at once. First I added the 3" catback which also deleted the cat, then I added the pacesetter header, then I heatwrapped it. All showed distinguishable improvements in power.
 

AGlobalThreat

Acceleration
Apr 4, 2005
991
0
0
Santa Clarita
The thread about the NA running a 13.9 was Dean Marcum in his old NA before he went turbo and 1uz. I talked to him quite a bit when I first got my car and he had quite a bit of work and money invested in the engine and that included high compression, lots of port and polishing/headwork, pretty much every na mod you can think of, some good tires and obviously a great driver. He set the bar too high to reach for most, but for people like me staying NA just started to seem like a waste of money. You'll get to a point where you want more, and your only options are blowing a ton of money on your poor NA to get minute power gains, or to go forced induction. We'll see which you choose ;)

Supras are like a drug
 

Nick M

Black Rifles Matter
Sep 9, 2005
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I don't see your dyno showing the stock piping and that 3 inches, so... where is it?

3 inch will gain top end, at the expense of the bottom, due to a loss in velocity.

IMO there is no need for a 3 inch exhaust as 2.5inch system can flow way more then a 3L NA six is ever going to produce, it also helps keep noise and drone down.
Absolutely correct.

People will never understand the 7mge , well, Allan does
:nuts:

Since you added commentary away from the tech so will I. I was driving a 7MGE in 1989, what were you doing?
 

AGlobalThreat

Acceleration
Apr 4, 2005
991
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0
Santa Clarita
If you're 1. upgrading your car and 2. know how to drive, and you need bottom end, you are missing either 1, or 2.

Dyno would prove me correct the gains are MUCH MORE NOTICABLE than the loss. I still don't see how you people argue this.

It's a 3" exhaust folks. If you don't want it, don't get it. But I got mine and never looked back.

When I was NA of course
 

7MA61

7MA61
Aug 27, 2006
98
0
0
Sydney
AGlobalThreat said:
If you're 1. upgrading your car and 2. know how to drive, and you need bottom end, you are missing either 1, or 2.

Dyno would prove me correct the gains are MUCH MORE NOTICABLE than the loss. I still don't see how you people argue this.

It's a 3" exhaust folks. If you don't want it, don't get it. But I got mine and never looked back.

When I was NA of course
The point is though a 7m with stock cams has no topend so no matter how good the zorst flows the cams pull the power in the top end.

My power flat lines for 1000rpm in the topend. Oh and bottom end is very nice for daily driving, roll on acceleration, getting off the line and hillclimbs all of which make up alot of my driving.

Making a correction to make it compatible to a dynojet dyno/using a 1/4 mile time to project power my car makes close to 185-190hp at the wheels or 155hp on dyno dynamics dyno (approxiametly 30% drivetrain loss).

The car makes peak power at about 5000rpm which then sits flat to about 6000rpm but torque and peak acceleration is dropping off well at this point.:3d_frown:

tuned2ql.jpg


I'd rather ride torque from 2000-5000rpm than worry about revving the car to six thousand rpm when its getting slower anyway.

When I get my cams in and a proper tune I'm hoping to liberate some more topend and further extend the rev limit supposedly good for 8000rpm.:icon_razz