strut bar myths

[figgie]

I am surprised at how this worthless contraption has everyone thinking it actually does SOMETHING to improve suspension. This is only specific to the STB that is tied between the tower and not the one that connects the frame and the towers in a triangle.


Myth #1: STB keep the suspension geometery the same.
Fact: STB are no better than a piece of rope tied between both strut tower. The up and down flexing can not be controlled by a floating arm. The side to side flexing is taken care off by lateral gravity and if that lateral flexing is happening. The STB is only going to help induce a bigger tracking problem.

Myth #2: But the factory installed one so the engineers know what they are doing.
Fact: Just like any other product. The mind is easily tricked into thinking what is good or not.

this is just the begining..
OVERTHROW floating STB!

edit: add more as I know there are more myths about STB out there!

 

[BorHor]

Werd. Basically useless in a supra. Doesn't it help in some other cars though??

 

[figgie]

Werd. Basically useless in a supra. Doesn't it help in some other cars though??

perhaps in the non macpherson strut type cars. But without bracing to the frame. I fail to see how exactly it would "help" I keep hearing that it keeps camber the same. 3200 lbs of car flying around a corner and that little "brace" helps......

 

[johnathan1]

Pisses me off when I see them being used on MK3's.

Even worse when someone wants to put one on their MK3, and you tell them it does nothing except add weight...and they refuse to believe you.

 

[williamb82]

how are they worthless? i have drivn a mk3 with and without one and it made a very noticable diff around corners wehn installed. also made a HUGE diff when i installed one on my mk2.

 

[figgie]

meh, no nede to get po'd!

If they want to do that. I have no issues with that.

 

[williamb82]

no po'ed at that. what pisses me off is you can get a strut brace for like $20 for the mk3 but the only good one for the mk2 is like $200 and only available in group buys on occasion. thats what sucks. lol. lukily i have 2 of them now so im set. and 2 sets of the addco swaybars as well etc.. both my black mk2's will handle very well when done.

 

[figgie]

william

why not make your own

 

[IJ.]

LOL been saying this since day 1 but people still swear by their "placebo bars"

 

[turbogate]

See this short thread where 2 well respected Supra Guru's (Larry-A and IJ) almost went at it:biglaugh:. They had different opinions about Strut bars. Larry-A did make a good point POST 25, but he never got around to proving it or didn't care to. But he did explain why he thought that strut bars did make a difference to a certain extent. (I'll hide my signature in this thread so you guys don't see my strut bar, LOL)

http://www.supramania.com/forums/showthread.php?t=43428&page=2&highlight=suspension

EDIT IJ just posted before me:icon_bigg

 

[IwantMKIII]

i would like to see some numbers with drawings proving these "myths" true or false. Until then i remain neutral.

 

[BorHor]

LOL been saying this since day 1 but people still swear by their "placebo bars"

haha. I want a TRD one because it looks bad ass and that is about it. Yes I am a ricer. :biglaugh:

 

[speed]

it all depends on what sort of suspension the car has. our cars have lower and UPPER a-arms, the uppers are where the force of the suspension is impacting the chassis. if theres any bracing that would be benificial on our cars, it would be where the uppers meet the chassis. But good luck making something to fit.


If the car has MacPherson struts- IE a lower control arm, and then the shock & spring assembly as one going to the unibody, THAT point is where the force of the suspension is being absorbed. in THAT case, a strut bar does do something, as the unibody at the tower mounting points CAN flex a little. Macphersons are structurally part of the suspension.


In our cars, we have subframes. The front subframe houses both upper and lower control arms, and the rear subframe has both upper and lower control arms. (edit.. er trailing arms on the rear. Same principle applies though) The body mounts are just to line up the spring and dampers. bracing those points won't do diddly. Now, bracing those points to the floor/firewall will stiffen the BODY, but not the suspension. Our springs and shocks are NOT structural bits.


Edit: Here's math:
http://e30m3performance.com/myths/Strutbar_Theory/strut_bar_theory.htm Keep in mind, the suspension in those diagrams has lower control arms, and ONE upper mount, this case the macpherson strut. Our cars have lower and UPPERs, the UPPER is where the force is placed.

 

[IJ.]

i would like to see some numbers with drawings proving these "myths" true or false. Until then i remain neutral.

It's just basic geometry.

Take a cardboard box with the ends open and flex it it's a big wobbly mess even though it's got 4 sides (this roughly replicates the front subframe/shock towers and Placebo Bar)

If you triangulate the corners it'll become more ridgid and resist the flexing.

 

[willtotheumm]

now I feel the 80 bucks I just spent on tower bars for my car is useless.

Anyone wanna buy brand-new front and rear bars? LOL

Nah i'll still install them. Might as well put them on. I dont think a few pounds will make a difference with 800hp (my Supra is gonna have this minimum by this time next year).

 

[sneakypete]

ive never had one before... and im assuming your talking about both the front and the rear STB?
also how about lower frame braces? are they any good? and im pretty sure traction bars have proven results.
im looking to upgrade my suspension a bit and need to solid advice
thanks
-pete

 

[spoolint78]

this should be on mythbusters lol.

 

[IJ.]

Take a look how they did the race cars
(not a placebo bar in sight)

 

[Fuzz420]

wow so i wasted a lot of money on my Cusco's then, oh well they look good, and ill install them anyway

 

[tlo86]

but they did weld a bar from the strut tower to the firewall, unless thats part of the rollcage?

i took mine off and didnt notice any difference *shrug*