Yes spinal compression is a definit problem if the sholder belts are attached at any more then a 45deg angle, but 4, 5, 6, ect. point harnesses and roll cages (more then 4 point) are dangerous for street use. Cars (or atleast ones built from roughly the late 70's and on) are designed with crumple zones and by adding bracing like roll cages takes these crumple zones away or makes them less effective. They are there to absorb the energy of the impact so that your body doesn't. The same goes for seat belts. Racing harnesses are designed to have very little give where as factory belt systems are designed to keep you in the car, but they give far more and are really to allow you to move in an impact but slow you down (kinda like the arresting cable on and aircraft carrier). If using racing harnesses without other safty gear (i.e. neck braces or hans devices) severe neck and upper spinal injurys are highly likey due to the fact that your body is kept in one spot yet your head is allowed to moved freely. The amount of energy and force generated in a 50mph head on collision is more then enough to tear your spinal cord.
Stock Seatbelt + Racing Seats = no no?
- Thread starter Kyle87T
- Start date
Everyone seems to be blaming possible injuries on the belt install/type of belt you're mentioning. No one has mentioned that a harness bar does nothing for roll protection. Racing seats and harnesses are meant to keep occupants in an upright position (not give like a stock seat)
If a car were to roll and the roof become crushed, the seats would keep you upright with nowhere to go. A rollbar is the proper way of preventing this with a racing seat.
I have racing seats with stock belts (simply cut a piece of flatbar to attach the female belt clip to, it can be removed from the stock seats) I use this for competition auto-x and track schools but will be installing a rollbar when I add harnesses and progress to more advanced track groups.
If a car were to roll and the roof become crushed, the seats would keep you upright with nowhere to go. A rollbar is the proper way of preventing this with a racing seat.
I have racing seats with stock belts (simply cut a piece of flatbar to attach the female belt clip to, it can be removed from the stock seats) I use this for competition auto-x and track schools but will be installing a rollbar when I add harnesses and progress to more advanced track groups.
noone has also mensioned that the back seats in a supra are practically useless. i sat in one for over 5 hours one day (to and from E-town end of year event) and it was the most uncomfortable seating arangment to be in. i wouldnt wish for my wort enemy to be crammed in the back seat of a supra!
Most important post in this thread. Unless you're wearing a road racing helmet and a HANS device every time you drive the car, you're just asking to have your skull literally seperate from your spine. Anyone familiar with Dale Earnhardt?cjsupra90 said:
So hold on. It is ok if I use a harness bar and harness if the harness is attached at less that a 45 degree angle? Is it still dangerous fo revery day use?
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mkIIIman089 said:
ya this is very inportant. I may have the spelling wrong but it is called a baisler skull fracture. It is when the Base of your skull detaches from the spinal cord. It is Instant DEATH. When you head has to much momentum and your body is restrained the Energy has to go somewhere. Fixed Racing seats are cool. But in all honesty there is almost no reason to need them on the street. Stuff like the Sparco torinos make much more Sense. It is a Seat construction like a OEM seat but desgined to give you better suport for spirited driving.
If you really need a racing seat then 10 to 1 you alreay have a Proper roll cage installed.
The hans Device is worth more then its weight in gold.
If you are going to do it, do it right.
that is my #1 gripe to any modding. either doing it half assed or doing it for the wrong reasons. Not saying that you are just in general allot of people seem to go down those roads.
Cars and everything about them is engineered, and there is good reason for that.
so If I use racing seats + harness bar + harnesses, I am in for spinal compression? Or does that only take effect when the harness is attached at more than a 45 degree angle?
as far as i understand the harness bar will work fine as long as your angle are still corect. Just keep in mind the flipping issue or coming to a sudden stop issue and your head popping off
How does that differ from using a regular seatbelt? A seatbelt holds everything, except your head also.
Just use the stock seat belts with the racing seats it will be fine. Harness should only be used in racing applications not on the street. If they where good for the street than they would be put in from the factory.
Seatbelts allow for give, they let your body go forward some to let out some of that momentum and put less stress on your neck. The harness is supposed to keep you pinned to the seat-while not doing anything for your head.Kyle87T said:
starscream5000 said:Yes it does matter. If the belts are bolted down to the floor and you have a wreck, when you go forward the belts are pulling your body down (because they are bolted to the floor) thus causing spinal compression. When the belts are bolted down at a 45 dregree angle and you have a wreck, they pull you back because of the angle that they are bolted down to the bar. Take a look at any racing car and you will see that 99.9% will have a setup similar to the 45 degree angle.
i kno it does matter, but i still dont see how it changes how the seatbelt works.
if the seatbelt is coming threw a hole just above your sholulder in the seat, then goes streight down. the seatbelt would be at the same angel to your sholder from the hole as if it was going streight back to a harness bar.
example:
inside the red circle is what im talking about. what i mean is the angel of the harness to your sholder is the same regaurdless of where the belt is bolted. thats what i dont understand, im not saying your wrong, i believe you i just dont understand the resoning.
An object in motion tends to stay in motion until an outside object interfers with it . A mangled quote from some guy a long time ago. I don't know if it would be considered geometry, or physics?
. A mangled quote from some guy a long time ago. I don't know if it would be considered geometry, or physics?
nosechunks said:i kno it does matter, but i still dont see how it changes how the seatbelt works.
if the seatbelt is coming threw a hole just above your sholulder in the seat, then goes streight down. the seatbelt would be at the same angel to your sholder from the hole as if it was going streight back to a harness bar.
example:
inside the red circle is what im talking about. what i mean is the angel of the harness to your sholder is the same regaurdless of where the belt is bolted. thats what i dont understand, im not saying your wrong, i believe you i just dont understand the resoning.
i see what youre saying. the holes in the seat act as a fulcrum or pivot so the relative angle of the belt to the body is the proper 0-30 deg. there are 2 problems i see with using the belt holes to maintain the proper belt angle.
1. depending on the seat and driver, it may simply not give you the proper geometry. say, seat holes are a little low and a tall drivers shoulders may sit above the bottom of the hole.
2. racing seats are not designed to act in this way and cheap Corbeaus even less so. the forces acting on those holes during a crash could colapse the seat back which would obviously cause even more problems. this scenario would be even more likely with a recliner seat.
bottom line is, if you want to safely run a racing harness (5 or 6 point, dont even bother with 4 point) then you must use either a harness bar or a roll bar or cage. and if you do that, then the rear seats can not be safely occupied even if you have managed to keep them in the car. this is due to all the extra heavy metal hardware in the back.
personally, i dont even see the allure of running a racing harness on the street. unlike the stock belt, the harness will pin you to the seat 24/7. sounds unconfortable to me.
Kyle87T said:
A regular seat belt decelerates you slowly compaired to something that just keeps you in one place. there are huge differences between them. If a racing harness was that great for use on the street. With all the focus n saftey atley you would be seeing the manufacturers of cars using something more like them. Instead what do they do. they come up with better decelerators and seat that spring into the best position for your body to be in in a colision.
Not everything that is good for racing is good for the street. If that were so then we would all be driving cars that are very different. Take a Car and setup the suspesion for a perfect smooth High speed track. If you used that car on the street. your ould be bouncing all over the place and your tires would loose traction all the time.
just in this case.
" YOUR HEAD WILL DISCONNECT FROM YOUR SPINE " not trying to yel there just want to make that stand out
The wheight and momentum a car has is substantial. Even at low speeds i can show you people that have broken almost every bone in there body while still wearing there seat belt. I knew someone who spent 6 month in hospital when he crashed his car doing 30MPH yes 30.
either way. If you do not belive anyone here look it up for yourself. You will be able to see a ton of information on the subject.
Read and research it, make an informed decsision
Turbo. Targa. Life.
SupraMania Shirt Slinger!
TTL's $.02:
Seatbelts also have little "rip zones" in them (don't know the true name). They kinda unravel as they get yanked on really hard, to a certain extent. There's like 5-6" of unravel material in the seatbelt that's stitched up into a compressed zone; when substantial force is applied, the stitches break, and that rip zone unravels the 6" to absorb some of the force.
Seatbelts also have little "rip zones" in them (don't know the true name). They kinda unravel as they get yanked on really hard, to a certain extent. There's like 5-6" of unravel material in the seatbelt that's stitched up into a compressed zone; when substantial force is applied, the stitches break, and that rip zone unravels the 6" to absorb some of the force.
ok, i want to say here i was wrong. i have always said that 4 point harnesses were unsafe due to the greater potential for submarineing. for the most part that is true, however the 4 points from schroth are different. their ASM models will prevent submarining. one shoulder strap will give just a little more than the other causing the body to twist a few degrees. the twist somehow stops the body from submarineing. i was very skeptical at first but their video of crash testing has made a believer out of me. the test video also clearly shows LESS stress to the neck than with a stock 3 point. i dont doubt you can injure your neck badly if you dont wear a HANS device but to make the blanket statement "if you wear a racing harness on the street, your head will pop off" seems rather unfounded.
oh yeah. http://www.schrothracing.com/
oh yeah. http://www.schrothracing.com/