Steel DBB vs Ceramic TBB?

[tekdeus]

The new Comp Turbo triple ceramic ball bearing technology sounds impressive, and if ceramic is 60% lighter, then it should improve spool speed as well. How long have ceramic ball bearings been on the market? How is the reliability compared to steel ball bearings?

Just wondering if I should go with the tried and true steel DBB GT35R, or consider one of the new Comp TBB turbos?

 

[GrimJack]

I don't know about ceramic in this particular application, but I've been using ceramic ball bearings in other areas for a couple decades now, and it's widely regarded as superior to steel everywhere else.

 

[Turbo Drifter]

Turbonetics used or may still use ceramic ball bearings in there turbos. I know for a long time they had problems with reliability. I can not see a triple ball bearing turbo being of any benefit. If anything I would expect to see more frictional loss with a triple ball bearing. I guess there making up for that with the ceramic.

One thing you need to remember with any ball bearing turbo is clean oil at all times. DBB turbos and I'm sure TBB turbos are very susceptible to contaminated oil. I would say 90% of the failed DBB turbos I would see were from bad oil.

I feel that the GT35R is a good choice for any moderate setup. The other option is a DBB T61 similar size and components but lacking the GT turbine wheel.

 

[tekdeus]

Would a pre-turbo oil filter be a good idea? Provided it was checked and cleaned very regularly? I know they can starve turbos of oil if neglected.

Any reason to choose something else without the GT turbine wheel? Still learning about these things.

 

[Turbo Drifter]

Would a pre-turbo oil filter be a good idea? Provided it was checked and cleaned very regularly? I know they can starve turbos of oil if neglected.

Any reason to choose something else without the GT turbine wheel? Still learning about these things.

I have a pre turbo filter on mine and clean it when ever I change the oil (3000kms).

The main part of a GT turbo is the turbine wheel. If you look at it next to a normal T3 or T4 turbine you will see that the GT has a clipped looking wheel and will increase the flow. There are some other small diffrences but thats the main one.

 

[tekdeus]

Is it clipped for faster spool?

 

[Frankenstien]

No, spool time has to do with the exhaust side of the turbo. The GT turbine wheel "pushes" more air vs. a standard turbine wheel. Turbine refers to the intake side of the turbo.

 

[Turbo Drifter]

Is it clipped for faster spool?

No its clipped for higher flow, it in fact just clipping a wheel will slow spool.

No, spool time has to do with the exhaust side of the turbo. The GT turbine wheel "pushes" more air vs. a standard turbine wheel. Turbine refers to the intake side of the turbo.

That is not correct. Spool time has to do with many different factors. Exhaust side dose have something to do with it. Mainly the turbine housing A/R, as well as turbine wheel flow. The CHRA also has some to do with spool time journal bearing vs. DBB. With Compressor wheels you can gain slightly faster spool (extended tip tech one the KKK turbos). The compressor cover of a turbo will also play a role in the way a turbo spools. Anti surge compressor covers us ally ad about 200-300rpm of lag.

The turbine wheel refers to the exhaust side of a turbo. Compressor wheel refers to the Intake side.

 

[IJ.]

Not "clipped" at all .... different aerodynamics.

 

[Turbo Drifter]

Not "clipped" at all .... different aerodynamics.

You are right and I did not want what I said above to come off as making it sound like it was. Just saying to layman and having the two side by side the GT looks clipped when in fact the GT wheel is much different.

Jeremy

 

[gaboonviper85]

No, spool time has to do with the exhaust side of the turbo. The GT turbine wheel "pushes" more air vs. a standard turbine wheel. Turbine refers to the intake side of the turbo.

Funny I thought the exhaust side was the turbine and the intake side was the compressor..

 

[Rennat]

doesnt the weight of the wheels also play a role?...

 

[jdub]

The difference of a few grams = milliseconds in terms of spool time.
Not anything I would worry about

 

[Frankenstien]

No its clipped for higher flow, it in fact just clipping a wheel will slow spool.



That is not correct. Spool time has to do with many different factors. Exhaust side dose have something to do with it. Mainly the turbine housing A/R, as well as turbine wheel flow. The CHRA also has some to do with spool time journal bearing vs. DBB. With Compressor wheels you can gain slightly faster spool (extended tip tech one the KKK turbos). The compressor cover of a turbo will also play a role in the way a turbo spools. Anti surge compressor covers us ally ad about 200-300rpm of lag.

The turbine wheel refers to the exhaust side of a turbo. Compressor wheel refers to the Intake side.

Sorry, I got the two wheels mixed up so my info was wrong.

 

[MDCmotorsports]

Lets get another thing straight here.

I'll be dammed if any of us actually see a true ceramic ball bearing in their turbo charger.

The race, cage, and balls would all have to be full ceramic. In this case, the bearing (1) would cost more than the turbo charger itself.

As for the ball bearings that are used in turbo chargers today, they are a stainless steel race & cage with ceramic balls.

They are a angular thrust bearing that will only accept thrust from one direction.

Super high tolerances (think abec 9+) that allow them to spin (un-caged) up to 150,000+ RPMS.