Shit after all this back and forth I might just go and read the oil section!! Haha All I know is that my first supra I had was an auto 89 turbo and ran around 40 on the oil gauge and went up when pushing it and now on my manual 88 turbo it runs around 20ish (except when first started of which runs at 35ish) and goes up when pushed so who knows! and I run 10-30.
So WTF just happened?
- Thread starter WSB
- Start date
soc chaos;1430950 said:
Yeah, you really need to read the oil sticky, because with that weight, you are almost starving your bearings at cold start-up, compared to something thinner.
on a side note.... my stock sender/gauge read 40psi at cold start but aftermarket and mechanical read 65-70psi. stock sender wouldnt top 30psi after fully warmed up at any rpms yet aftermarket hits 30psi at 2000rpms and 45-50 at 27-3000rpms (fully warm, 30+ minutes of stop and go traffic). Ive read threads where guys have noticed the stock sender reading lower and lower over the years so maybe hooking a mechanical gauge up and knowing for sure is your best bet... the trends you've found using the stock gauge are what you should expected on a day to day basis. sudden changes leave room for a more accurate reading and diagnoses
if you use a tick oil as a fix for a motor with 175k+ miles you are stupid and i hope your motor shits its self, 10w-30 or plane 30 is the perfect oil for the 7mgte, stop being stupid.
Get another gauge?
Here goes my rant …..
LOL supramania is turning into supraforums the irony is killing me ...... where is any actually study that proves anything you guys are arguing about? Its like what I have said to JDUB in the past. His theories sound well thought out and he has some good figures and knowledge about some very small but important details and things are supposed to happen the way you think they would, but science has shown us many times and continues to show us that what you may expect to happen or better yet believe to be a fact may not be “fact” even if you have data to support it. So show me the hard data that no one can argue about!
At one time the world was know to be flat/square because they had the data to back up their theories. If you looked out at the ocean it appeared that you would fall off. To them the earth was the center of the universe because everything around the people of that time proved it to be that way. Everyday people looked up to the stars and saw that everything was rotating around the earth because they could not feel earth spinning at 1,000 miles per hour…. Blah blah blah you get my point.
So for all of you that have such a strong opinions, but no real data just opinions and theories ….. I say prove it. Take a part a few motors that have been running different weight oil and compared the actual wear and tear caused buy the different viscosities. I tear part motors all day long and to this day I have not been able to see any un-normal wear and tear on the bearings. I tore apart my 7m that I was running 20w-50 since February just a few days ago and the damn bearings were in great shape. Keep in mind I drive hard all day every day I have friend that run 0w30 in their 500rwhp S2000 and visually are bearing in the same shape, but my bearing are factory JDM used with over 100,000 miles on it. The only thing I notices is that the cams on the 7m score(*sp) a bit but other than that I was very surprised how the internal looked considering JDUB and I going back forth about how I am basically destroying my motor with 20w-50. However there isn’t any hard data to verify what he said in fact I found the total opposite.
Its your motor do what the fuck you want. None of these guys on these forums will donate a dime to your car if they give you bad advise and your shit blows up. Do your own research and make your own decision based on what you find. Toyota did a lot of research for you, well minus the damn 50+/- tq specs on the head, other than that Toyota specs and requirements are on point.
Here goes my rant …..
LOL supramania is turning into supraforums the irony is killing me ...... where is any actually study that proves anything you guys are arguing about? Its like what I have said to JDUB in the past. His theories sound well thought out and he has some good figures and knowledge about some very small but important details and things are supposed to happen the way you think they would, but science has shown us many times and continues to show us that what you may expect to happen or better yet believe to be a fact may not be “fact” even if you have data to support it. So show me the hard data that no one can argue about!
At one time the world was know to be flat/square because they had the data to back up their theories. If you looked out at the ocean it appeared that you would fall off. To them the earth was the center of the universe because everything around the people of that time proved it to be that way. Everyday people looked up to the stars and saw that everything was rotating around the earth because they could not feel earth spinning at 1,000 miles per hour…. Blah blah blah you get my point.
So for all of you that have such a strong opinions, but no real data just opinions and theories ….. I say prove it. Take a part a few motors that have been running different weight oil and compared the actual wear and tear caused buy the different viscosities. I tear part motors all day long and to this day I have not been able to see any un-normal wear and tear on the bearings. I tore apart my 7m that I was running 20w-50 since February just a few days ago and the damn bearings were in great shape. Keep in mind I drive hard all day every day I have friend that run 0w30 in their 500rwhp S2000 and visually are bearing in the same shape, but my bearing are factory JDM used with over 100,000 miles on it. The only thing I notices is that the cams on the 7m score(*sp) a bit but other than that I was very surprised how the internal looked considering JDUB and I going back forth about how I am basically destroying my motor with 20w-50. However there isn’t any hard data to verify what he said in fact I found the total opposite.
Its your motor do what the fuck you want. None of these guys on these forums will donate a dime to your car if they give you bad advise and your shit blows up. Do your own research and make your own decision based on what you find. Toyota did a lot of research for you, well minus the damn 50+/- tq specs on the head, other than that Toyota specs and requirements are on point.
^^Very good points my friend. :icon_bigg
But the question get another gauge that you posted, im not sure if your asking or saying it as like sacasm, i wasnt to sure. I would say get a new one, only because first off the gauge is 20+ years old, so there is no telling if somebody messed with it over the years or what have you. Second because its electronic over the years it wil become less and less accurate. I guess you could say the calibration gets off on the gauge. Anyways, thats the reason I would say yes to changing the gauge. Just my .02 not that it matters.
You are absolutely correct about the "its your car do what you want".
But the question get another gauge that you posted, im not sure if your asking or saying it as like sacasm, i wasnt to sure. I would say get a new one, only because first off the gauge is 20+ years old, so there is no telling if somebody messed with it over the years or what have you. Second because its electronic over the years it wil become less and less accurate. I guess you could say the calibration gets off on the gauge. Anyways, thats the reason I would say yes to changing the gauge. Just my .02 not that it matters.
You are absolutely correct about the "its your car do what you want".
Congrats, on the 1st moderate, level headed post I've seen on SM for some time!
I've personally run 20w-50 down through 5w-20 in my car, and the difference was minimal. Primarily fuel economy was the notable difference, improving with the thinner oils. Wear also increased (according to analysis) with the thinner oils. Interestingly enough, the best analysis I've ever gotten back was from a 20w-50...
I've said it like 3 times now, but his oil choice is fine and it's not going to damage a damn thing. Providing no major failure (ubiquitous HG, etc...) that engine will go another 175k.
I've personally run 20w-50 down through 5w-20 in my car, and the difference was minimal. Primarily fuel economy was the notable difference, improving with the thinner oils. Wear also increased (according to analysis) with the thinner oils. Interestingly enough, the best analysis I've ever gotten back was from a 20w-50...
I've said it like 3 times now, but his oil choice is fine and it's not going to damage a damn thing. Providing no major failure (ubiquitous HG, etc...) that engine will go another 175k.
I meant like did the thought of get another an aftermarket gauge cross your mind ..... The parts on these cars are old, worn and possibly damage by this point. Anyone with a old car should do some routine maintenance and if its a boosted car they should look to get an oil temp, oil pressure, a wideband, and a boost gauge for preventive maintenance and a peace of mind. That’s my opinion from the headaches I have faced.
Looks like a few things need clarification here 
First - the stock gauge is accurate...slow, yes...it is accurate.
Second - think of synthetic oil as a top shelf vodka...highly refined, all give you the desired results, and it comes down to how how well it performs for you (or your motor). It has never been my intent to say that this 0W-30 or that 5W-30 is best for your engine, or even a 5W-40 is bad. I've been trying to get guys to look at what they are doing in terms of oil flow through the engine and make an informed choice...not a choice based on "my sister's brother-in-law" told me.
A comparison is in order:
Rotella T 5W-40:
40 deg C - 95.0 cst
100 deg C - 15.5 cst
Castrol European Formula (aka German Castrol):
40 deg C - 66.8 cst
100 deg C - 12.1 cst
Regardless of "real life" experience, GC is going to flow better cold...it's simple physics. Take a bottle of each, put in the freezer for an hour and pour down a cookie sheet at a 30 deg incline. Time how long it takes to get to the bottom...it's not rocket science which will be faster. That is exactly how each is going to pump through your motor...it's a fact.
Now the question is how will each perform at a 100 deg ops temp. Keep in mind that a hydrodynamic bearings (like rod/main bearings) are like a water ski...they "float" on a film of oil.
The answer to that is it depends on how wide the bearing clearances are...either intentionally or from wear. If clearances are tight, GC will perform better...there will be higher flow through the bearings ensuring good film thickness to keep the bearings from touching the crank.
If clearances are at the wide side of spec (or are worn), the Rotella will perform better. The higher viscosity will provide a thicker film thickness and increased boundary layer lubrication will help keep the bearings from touching the crank.
The TSRM spec for oils is ancient history. Oil technology has come light years further than what was originally specified for the 7M. What is true, the 7M was spec'ed for a 30W oil and it covers the widest ops range for the motor. You can got to a thicker oil...in the case of a 175k engine, the Rotella T 5W-40 is a good choice to get additional life from the engine. I would not say that if it was a brand new rebuilt motor.
Bounty - I never said you are "destroying your motor"...I said that a 20W-50 is not the best oil for your engine and will cause wear at cold start. Why don't you PM Duane and ask him how a 15W-50 performed in his brand new 800 HP engine when it got cold outside in Vancouver. From your own experience, how do you think that 20W-50 did being pumped up to your cams and then through the small diameter channel through the middle. I rest my case.
Experience is a very good thing when it is backed up by the facts...making up facts or theories to support experience is a very bad thing.
The devil is in the details and the correct answer is always "it depends".
First - the stock gauge is accurate...slow, yes...it is accurate.
Second - think of synthetic oil as a top shelf vodka...highly refined, all give you the desired results, and it comes down to how how well it performs for you (or your motor). It has never been my intent to say that this 0W-30 or that 5W-30 is best for your engine, or even a 5W-40 is bad. I've been trying to get guys to look at what they are doing in terms of oil flow through the engine and make an informed choice...not a choice based on "my sister's brother-in-law" told me.
A comparison is in order:
Rotella T 5W-40:
40 deg C - 95.0 cst
100 deg C - 15.5 cst
Castrol European Formula (aka German Castrol):
40 deg C - 66.8 cst
100 deg C - 12.1 cst
Regardless of "real life" experience, GC is going to flow better cold...it's simple physics. Take a bottle of each, put in the freezer for an hour and pour down a cookie sheet at a 30 deg incline. Time how long it takes to get to the bottom...it's not rocket science which will be faster. That is exactly how each is going to pump through your motor...it's a fact.
Now the question is how will each perform at a 100 deg ops temp. Keep in mind that a hydrodynamic bearings (like rod/main bearings) are like a water ski...they "float" on a film of oil.
The answer to that is it depends on how wide the bearing clearances are...either intentionally or from wear. If clearances are tight, GC will perform better...there will be higher flow through the bearings ensuring good film thickness to keep the bearings from touching the crank.
If clearances are at the wide side of spec (or are worn), the Rotella will perform better. The higher viscosity will provide a thicker film thickness and increased boundary layer lubrication will help keep the bearings from touching the crank.
The TSRM spec for oils is ancient history. Oil technology has come light years further than what was originally specified for the 7M. What is true, the 7M was spec'ed for a 30W oil and it covers the widest ops range for the motor. You can got to a thicker oil...in the case of a 175k engine, the Rotella T 5W-40 is a good choice to get additional life from the engine. I would not say that if it was a brand new rebuilt motor.
Bounty - I never said you are "destroying your motor"...I said that a 20W-50 is not the best oil for your engine and will cause wear at cold start. Why don't you PM Duane and ask him how a 15W-50 performed in his brand new 800 HP engine when it got cold outside in Vancouver. From your own experience, how do you think that 20W-50 did being pumped up to your cams and then through the small diameter channel through the middle. I rest my case.
Experience is a very good thing when it is backed up by the facts...making up facts or theories to support experience is a very bad thing.
The devil is in the details and the correct answer is always "it depends".
JDUB good point I wondered when you would pop up.... I m always open to have educated conversation even if we disagree that’s how learning takes place.... unlike some of the bs post in this thread.
However you are comparing apples and oranges. In the summer in Atlanta Ga its very different than the winters in Vancouver Canada. I wonder if most people even understand what the numbers and letters mean with the oils saying 0w, 5w, 10w, 15w and 20w.
In the summer its already 70+degrees before I crank my car unlike Vanvouever in the winter where its like 17 degrees if that in the early AM ..... Big difference. Its up to owner to know what works well with their situation.
However you are comparing apples and oranges. In the summer in Atlanta Ga its very different than the winters in Vancouver Canada. I wonder if most people even understand what the numbers and letters mean with the oils saying 0w, 5w, 10w, 15w and 20w
. In the summer its already 70+degrees before I crank my car unlike Vanvouever in the winter where its like 17 degrees if that in the early AM ..... Big difference. Its up to owner to know what works well with their situation.
Oil is rated at a "cold" viscosity of 40 deg C...that equals to 104 deg F. Do the same experiment with your favorite 20W-50 and GC 0W-30 by leaving both bottles outside on a 70 deg night...want to make a $100 bet on which is going to be faster to the bottom?
This brings up a very good point that is relative to what happened to Duane...oil get thicker when it is cold. If you have OAT below freezing the viscosity is going to be considerably higher than what's shown on the data sheet. It's really not apples to oranges, it's what happens to oil viscosity whenever temps are below the specified 40 deg C. You are correct however, where you live and the OATs you experience in different parts of North America have a huge impact.
Also, visual inspection of bearings pulled from a motor is limited. You have to take a micrometer and measure thickness to get the "facts" to back up the visual inspection.
You are also correct about the confusion for the 1st number on an SAE grade....it's actually easy (for those that don't know), it's the simplified cold viscosity performance for any oil. To get specifics, you have to look at the oil data sheet...keep in mind what I said about the 40 deg C "cold" spec above.
This brings up a very good point that is relative to what happened to Duane...oil get thicker when it is cold. If you have OAT below freezing the viscosity is going to be considerably higher than what's shown on the data sheet. It's really not apples to oranges, it's what happens to oil viscosity whenever temps are below the specified 40 deg C. You are correct however, where you live and the OATs you experience in different parts of North America have a huge impact.
Also, visual inspection of bearings pulled from a motor is limited. You have to take a micrometer and measure thickness to get the "facts" to back up the visual inspection.
You are also correct about the confusion for the 1st number on an SAE grade....it's actually easy (for those that don't know), it's the simplified cold viscosity performance for any oil. To get specifics, you have to look at the oil data sheet...keep in mind what I said about the 40 deg C "cold" spec above.
I only bet when I know I can win ..... I might give the GC a try once i get pasted the super low visc. For now in Atlanta i run 10w-30 ..... Thanks to JDUB explaining the cold flow rates a while back .... I used to run 20w50 all year and ignored the slight knock or tapping noise on the first few seconds after the car was started
..... I might give the GC a try once i get pasted the super low visc. For now in Atlanta i run 10w-30 ..... Thanks to JDUB explaining the cold flow rates a while back .... I used to run 20w50 all year and ignored the slight knock or tapping noise on the first few seconds after the car was started
bountykilla0118;1431745 said:I only bet when I know I can win
LOL...me too
Don't worry about the cold viscosity in therms of it being too "thin"...it can never be too low a viscosity. Think about it: GC has a cold viscosity of 66.8 cst...that is over 5 times the ops temp viscosity (12.1 cst) that the engine spends 90% of it's time at. It is not possible for an oil to be too thin at cold start.
That tapping you described is exactly what was happening to Duane on a 15W-50, only more so due to the colder OAT. We talked and I suggested he use Amsoil European (ASL) 5W-40...(he gets a good deal on Amsoil)...the specs are:
40 deg C - 79.7 cst
100 deg C - 13.7 cst
Fit the bill nicely based on how he has his clearances set...looks like it was a huge help. My 2nd alternative for him was (guess what) Rotella T 5W-40 synthetic.
I run Valvoline 10W-40, Is that ok to be running with? Or should i switch to a tinner oil since its getting colder now?
suprafanatic;1431786 said:
You know, when I read a question like this it indicates that you have done zero reading in the Lube section...or, this thread for that matter. It's just plain lazy. If you don't have the time to do even the smallest amount of research, I don't have the time to answer a question like this.