so whats the deal witht he 500-mile retorque
- Thread starter Figit090
- Start date
my god what have i done.
lol...jk
i did not expect to see such...enthusiasm...in this discussion. obviously the debate going on in my head goes on elsewhere. thanks guys. i will try and read it tomorrow when i'm awake. for now, its just too much. lol!
lol...jk
i did not expect to see such...enthusiasm...in this discussion. obviously the debate going on in my head goes on elsewhere. thanks guys. i will try and read it tomorrow when i'm awake. for now, its just too much. lol!
honestly not tring to drag this out further, you both bring great points to the table,
after reading the whole thread, i think you guys where missing what each other's points were..
so let's see...
true..
stretch gauge is the most accurate way to determine bolt load, sadly you most be able to put a measuring device on both sides of the bolt to gauge the change of length the bolt has made.
~ i supose if you measure from the deck to the top of the bolt... eh just to difficult with head bolts, thats probally why they came up with other methods to tighten bolts beside just torque them.
there's torque to yeild, and torque to angle bolts aswell, tty, raise the bolts torque till the final pass where bolt is torqued to final vaule,
tta, the bolt is torqued to a small amount of final torque 30% or so, maybe more, and then measured in degree's how much left to turn the bolt. ex, 30ftlbs +45* ~ these bolts are usualy junk after you have used them once,
mls do compresse to a point, the thin layers on the contacting surface , head and deck, these layers have ridge's which compresse and help seal..
i agree the failure of the 7m is the head gasket.
even with arp's and a new oem hg i still lost the hg with less the 5000 very hard abused miles...
the retorque thing....
ive done it, i reccomend it, is it the right thing to do, well, "if" lol
i dont really suggest doing it to the stock bolts, because their tty, and they stretch into a plastiue region..
arp's sure., new ones to boot,
the set i have, i have had in and out of my motor 6 times or more in the last year, and they are still working great, just do superceed the torque vaules and ruin the studs and they should be good to use for the life of the motor.
always walk your torque vaules up, and fallow tsrm torque proceedure. ie outward spiral.
well racer, and jdub, you both bring great facts and points to the agrument,
and since their are soo many opion's out there in the board's it's not that hard for a newcomer to come in and read bad information. sheesh i did, i remember cutting corner' tring to get the mhg installed, prepped the head but i missed the information saying the deck needed to be prepped to a same RA', which means the motor has to be torn down to bare block. so it can be hot tanked after the deck has been milled.
well it's time to go feel like a race car driver again, and cruise to the next town over in the supra!.
after reading the whole thread, i think you guys where missing what each other's points were..
so let's see...
true..
stretch gauge is the most accurate way to determine bolt load, sadly you most be able to put a measuring device on both sides of the bolt to gauge the change of length the bolt has made.
~ i supose if you measure from the deck to the top of the bolt... eh just to difficult with head bolts, thats probally why they came up with other methods to tighten bolts beside just torque them.
there's torque to yeild, and torque to angle bolts aswell, tty, raise the bolts torque till the final pass where bolt is torqued to final vaule,
tta, the bolt is torqued to a small amount of final torque 30% or so, maybe more, and then measured in degree's how much left to turn the bolt. ex, 30ftlbs +45* ~ these bolts are usualy junk after you have used them once,
mls do compresse to a point, the thin layers on the contacting surface , head and deck, these layers have ridge's which compresse and help seal..
i agree the failure of the 7m is the head gasket.
even with arp's and a new oem hg i still lost the hg with less the 5000 very hard abused miles...
the retorque thing....
ive done it, i reccomend it, is it the right thing to do, well, "if" lol
i dont really suggest doing it to the stock bolts, because their tty, and they stretch into a plastiue region..
arp's sure., new ones to boot,
the set i have, i have had in and out of my motor 6 times or more in the last year, and they are still working great, just do superceed the torque vaules and ruin the studs and they should be good to use for the life of the motor.
always walk your torque vaules up, and fallow tsrm torque proceedure. ie outward spiral.
well racer, and jdub, you both bring great facts and points to the agrument,
and since their are soo many opion's out there in the board's it's not that hard for a newcomer to come in and read bad information. sheesh i did, i remember cutting corner' tring to get the mhg installed, prepped the head but i missed the information saying the deck needed to be prepped to a same RA', which means the motor has to be torn down to bare block. so it can be hot tanked after the deck has been milled.
well it's time to go feel like a race car driver again, and cruise to the next town over in the supra!.
jdub said:Fun if you're a Troll...
Do what you will on a re-torque...IMO, it's a good idea.
Well I'm glad we had fun, and had time to think about what we said.... ahem ahem...
I seriously lol'd about this whole thing.
and those are new un-stretched bolts. so its a bit different than my case.
and BTW, i still havent found time to read this and make sence of it.
and BTW, i still havent found time to read this and make sence of it.
I've checked the values on my engine, to do the "retorque" everyone says to do, but my bolts were still at values I couldn't bust with my torque wrench (90ft.lbs+).
Maybe I just did it right.
Maybe I just did it right.
Stock bolts are not TTY. That is why you can reuse them per the TSRM.
*If* they were TTY you would preload with a low torque, then turn a certain number of degrees. And they would be marked with a diamond in the TSRM to show they cannot be reused.
With regards to the other question, I haven't retorqued my ARPs with MLS and its been many miles. Still, one data point doesn't tell you much as any statistician knows. I do tend to agree with the point that the bolts should be stable from the start, as otherwise they would creep forever. There is nothing magical about 10 cycles after all. It also seems valid that if this is true any other bolt that is heat cycled, and there are many in any engine including the rods as noted, plus manifolds, turbo, and so on should also be subject to the problem.
If someone can show me a manufacturer's maintenance schedule for any new car that says to go back to the dealer and retorque after n starts then please forward a link.
*If* they were TTY you would preload with a low torque, then turn a certain number of degrees. And they would be marked with a diamond in the TSRM to show they cannot be reused.
With regards to the other question, I haven't retorqued my ARPs with MLS and its been many miles. Still, one data point doesn't tell you much as any statistician knows. I do tend to agree with the point that the bolts should be stable from the start, as otherwise they would creep forever. There is nothing magical about 10 cycles after all. It also seems valid that if this is true any other bolt that is heat cycled, and there are many in any engine including the rods as noted, plus manifolds, turbo, and so on should also be subject to the problem.
If someone can show me a manufacturer's maintenance schedule for any new car that says to go back to the dealer and retorque after n starts then please forward a link.