safc questions

[lppro]

ok so im going to buy a apexi safc soon and i have a few questions.
1. how hard are they to set up?
2. do i still need a air fuel gauge?
3. do i still need a wideband?
4. is there any other supporting mods i need to run a safc?
thanks for your help!

 

[Nalleywhacker]

there not that difficult to instal if you have any electrical experience. and a wideband is a a/f ratio gauge no you dont have to have one but if you can get one yes get one! they are very very helpful with out it you cant do much tuning with your safc.

 

[flubyux2]

do you just want to look at it, or do you want to tune with it?

If you want to do the latter; 1: easy, 2. No, 3. Yes, 4. No but it helps to have fuel mods like injectors, pump and AFPR.

 

[rumptis]

Very easy to install, I did mine in couple of hours taking my time making sure I hooked everything up right.

If you do a little reading up on it you will see its limitations.

It only adjusts fuel...nothing else all that useful really.

 

[MA70Snowman]

It only adjusts fuel...nothing else all that useful really.

umm.. technically it adjusts timing. (but lets not get into the mechanics of it)

here's a couple links to help you with it.

The first is the actual web site and manual, not TOOO helpful but points you in the right direction, the second one is a godsend easily tell you exactly where and what goes to what.

http://www.apexi-usa.com/pdfInstallation/15.pdf
http://www.snapdrive.net/files/91304/Supra/HKS_SAFR_MKIII.pdf

The SAFC does not REQUIRE any supporting mods, but really what are you tuning then? is a wideband required? no but how are you going to tune (or pay the money to goto a dyno everytime, and in that case just get a WB) but i will say i had a WB before i even had the SAFC (and even before i put the lex/550's in) a WB is VERY useful and thats probably the #1 gauge i keep an eye on. overall the SAFC is a very easy tool to use, althought the actual tuning requires some know what. READ up on what your doing if you try and tune it yourself.

IMHO opinion this is the order you need to get things (if your set into going fuel)

Wideband sensor and gauge
550's/lex
pump(optional but at least the 12v mod)
SAFC

 

[lppro]

is there a thread on the 12v mod? ive herd about it many times..

 

[AJ'S 88NA]

Basically a jumper wire across the FP resistor connections so the pump sees 12 volts all the time. Just search.

 

[flubyux2]

umm.. technically it adjusts timing. (but lets not get into the mechanics of it)...

umm... actually it Doesnt adjust timing. only the Apexi ITC can do that. the SAFC and all Air-flow controllers of this sort modify the airflow meter/map sensor signal going into the ecu which alters how much air the ECU "thinks" is entering the engine at any given moment. if you reduce the airflow signal by too much, it will make the ECU think there is an inordinantly small amount of air entering engine. this makes the ECU think its a low load/low throttle condition and the tming advance look-up table shows that the timing should be advance for low load conditions to reduce emissions and such.

SAFC controls air-flow signal, which inturns recalibrates the fuel trims. as a secondary affect thru no fault of the SAFC, the timing curves default to different areas of the lookup table.

you may want to be more specific with what you say otherwise people could get the wrong idea... like that an SAFC can adjust timing.

 

[rumptis]

What he was getting at I think is if you decrease the amount of fuel the timing is changed by the ECU.

 

[brs86supra]

so would the safc be a good tuning device to use, lets say for a na-t swap

 

[dok33]

so would the safc be a good tuning device to use, lets say for a na-t swap

If you're using turbo electronics, then yes. If you're planning to use it with N/A electronics to add fuel for a turbo, then no. Pulling/adding too much fuel with AFC will screw up your timing (lot of good info on this in DSM forums) as the stock ECU tries to adjust (as mentioned above). You MIGHT be able to get away with using an FMU for rough fuel addition and then trim it out with the AFC though...

 

[infamous7]

what dude said about the timing actually is correct...if you change your a/f, u theoretically change your firing line and ultimately change your burn time which is a timing change but like he said...."lets not get into that"

u want a wideband if u actually plan on doing something with the SAFC other than blow yer shit up...install isnt too dificult but do it right and solder, dont just crimp. these cars run somewhat rich IIRC so u have room to play but do some reading on what you are actually doing first

good luck

 

[flubyux2]

What he was getting at I think is if you decrease the amount of fuel the timing is changed by the ECU.

i know this, thats what i explained, in depth. he just claimed timing was changed, whether he meant what i said, or what it sounded like.

an SAFC should be fine for minor recalibrations. but if you have to scale down huge injectors, it will result in larger lies being told to the ECU and the timing will probably be jerked around more than would be acceptable.

if youre going to try to run huger injectors and scale them down, you might have to retard your base ignition timing so that the ECU doesnt try to advance the ignition too far. if it does, itll be a vicious cycle of over advancing (compared to the actual boost/load) resulting in knock and then retarding to base timing and actually costing you power.

 

[brs86supra]

ok so like dok33 said, i can go SAFC if i am using gte electronics on my NA-T swap. but of course i will need a wideband. so how hard would it be to use the safc to tune my na-t project. sorry for budding in on the thread but just have a few questions. trying to decide if i shoud go safc cause i might be able to get one cheap or go greddy E-Manage ultimate.