Running way to rich...bad?

[aloshan]

Hey Guys

Ive posted something similar to this before and my resolution was to just install the r154 so I can better control my idle, and then put the standalone in. Circumstances have forced me to wait until February next year to install the tranny ...so in the mean time I have a few questions.

Anyway my questions -

- put in a rebuilt engine with trd cams ( 288/288 12 mm lift) oversized forged pistons + mhg arps studs
- boost is set as stock
- using stock ecu after rebuild (stupid me)

I'm still running the engine in , have done approx 250km (or 155miles for those metrically challanged . I have massive electrical problems , body problems ...basically all problems but Im tackling them one by one.

My questions

-When I start my car, it will die unless I keep my foot on the accelerator pedal ( the revs drop to below 500 and the engine dies). Once the engine has warmed up it easily sits and stays at 1200 rpms ( had to raise the idle for now). It is a massive inconvenience for me to have to sit in the car and keep my leg on the pedal for 15 to wait for it to warm up. Ive heard this may be a cold start injector problem , but know that I'm going to put a standalone so just ignored it. Beside inconvenience is this cold start problem detrimental to my engine? (I cringe when I hear the revs drop and the internals are struggling to maintain idle...)

- I am running extremely rich. All I can smell when the car is started is petrol. Lots of it. Ive checked the smoke while feathering the accelerator and the smoke is black. I know it is better to run rich then to run lean , but I don't know just how rich I am running. Ive never been behind or sat in a car that reeks of petrol this bad.How much damage can possibly be done by running an engine extremely rich and should I buy a wide band gauge and safc/vpc so I can check and tune my a/f ratio or should I stick with the stock setup for now until next year March when I finally get my standalone in and get everything tuned?

-Can I last running a rich tune until next year or would the damage being done to the engine make it not worth the chance. Also is it difficult to install and tune the wide-band and safc having very little tuning knowledge or would i probably have to pay someone to have it done anyway.

-Last night I revved the car a few minutes after starting it and the smoke that came out of the exhaust was white. Is it ALWAYS coolant if its white ( before I got into cars I thought I saw all smoke that came from an average car as being white...but then again back then i wasn't paying much attention)

 

[drod23]

white smoke means burning coolant,black smoke means fuel (running rich)

 

[aloshan]

white smoke means burning coolant,black smoke means fuel (running rich)

oops sorry. mean to say black smoke....but on that case I revved the engine again last night after I had just started it to about 6000rpm and I saw white smoke pummeling out of the exhaust.... now uve got me worried...third question added. Dammit! I check my oil and water levels consistently and I baby the engine...I hope nothings badly wrong...

 

[kelson]

white smoke means burning coolant,black smoke means fuel (running rich)

ya this concerned me the most. running rich makes really dark black smoke. think if you have ever seen big diesel trucks drag racing and pouring black smoke out of their stacks. that kind of black. you shouldn't worry too much about running rich, my fiances brother has a tt 300zx that was idling at about 10:1 AFR for a long time lol and I doubt you's is that bad. figure out what is making the smoke first. white means coolant or oil which looks a little more blue, but start by checking the head gasket and turbo.

 

[87targa]

I would get a WBo2 for sure. I wouldn't run the car being pig rich 10+ afr. I would be worried about diluting the oil, clogging your o2, and burning the cat from running very rich for a long time.

Wiring a WBo2 is not too difficult, power, ground, gauge.

What set up do you have for fuel and air (550+lex), stock? if it's 550+lex you can probably tune it out to idle correctly. if it's bigger injectors, you're going to fight your ecu all the time to idle correctly since the ecu will change the tune to what it likes.

Cold start might be affected by your cams. so if you degreed them and you closed the overlap a bit you should be fine with the idle.

If your nights get extremely cold then you could just be seeing condensation (like during the winter when you start up a car). If your exhaust smells sweet then most likely it's coolant. you can do a compression check to see if you have a gasket issue or a cylinder and coolant leak down test. which are both real simple.

 

[Turbo Habanero]

Have you check for any engine codes?

Also if you have a built motor with cams and things like that dish out the $180 for a AEM Uego Wideband yo need to protect your investment.

Burning White smoke is coolant I.E blown Head Gasket and 155miles on the motor means shitty rebuild.

Now Light Grey smoke could be bad valve stem seals or guides.... but since you did cams im sure you had the head rebuilt along with the block.

I would do a leakdown test ASAP and test the coolant for oil and vise versa...

I personally would not drive the car in the condition you say it is in and definitely without a wide band sensor(in my opinion is one of the most valued part for any sports car).

 

[AJ'S 88NA]

Have you set your TPS?

With the cam change you may not be able to get your idle right with out a piggyback or standalone and a wideband would make it easier and safer to get a tune.

 

[aloshan]

I would get a WBo2 for sure. I wouldn't run the car being pig rich 10+ afr. I would be worried about diluting the oil, clogging your o2, and burning the cat from running very rich for a long time.

Wiring a WBo2 is not too difficult, power, ground, gauge.

What set up do you have for fuel and air (550+lex), stock? if it's 550+lex you can probably tune it out to idle correctly. if it's bigger injectors, you're going to fight your ecu all the time to idle correctly since the ecu will change the tune to what it likes.

Cold start might be affected by your cams. so if you degreed them and you closed the overlap a bit you should be fine with the idle.

If your nights get extremely cold then you could just be seeing condensation (like during the winter when you start up a car). If your exhaust smells sweet then most likely it's coolant. you can do a compression check to see if you have a gasket issue or a cylinder and coolant leak down test. which are both real simple.

Stock fuel set up atm. Stock injectors. I doubt is a blown headgasket , took the radiator cap of this morning and the coolant seems fine , no milky substance...but will be taking it to a mechanic this weekend to confirm

Have you check for any engine codes?

Also if you have a built motor with cams and things like that dish out the $180 for a AEM Uego Wideband yo need to protect your investment.

Burning White smoke is coolant I.E blown Head Gasket and 155miles on the motor means shitty rebuild.

Now Light Grey smoke could be bad valve stem seals or guides.... but since you did cams im sure you had the head rebuilt along with the block.

I would do a leakdown test ASAP and test the coolant for oil and vise versa...

I personally would not drive the car in the condition you say it is in and definitely without a wide band sensor(in my opinion is one of the most valued part for any sports car).

I completely agree with you , ive put alot into this engine , i definitely need to protect my investment by buying a wideband. heard good things about aem , but also bad things as well.apparently innovates wideband is the best....

Have you set your TPS?

With the cam change you may not be able to get your idle right with out a piggyback or standalone and a wideband would make it easier and safer to get a tune.

TPS is set correctly.yeah the guy who did the rebuild said that a piggyback or standalone would be the only thing to correct my idle, since im only doing that after the r154 conversion , i was wondering whether an safc could help me lean it out in the mean time , or simply not worth the extra $400 since running rich doesn't really do significant damage....

 

[AJ'S 88NA]

Yes a SAFC would do, running rich can "wash cylinders" and can do some damage.

 

[GrimJack]

A few things to add.

Wideband can't hurt. Trying to gauge what your air fuel ratio is by smell, taste, or feel is pointless. Once you get that, let us know what your AFR really is. How rich is too rich? My car idles at mid 9 AFR when it's cold. Haven't had any problems with it yet. And while you can wash fuel past the rings and contaminate the oil, you have to be running REALLY rich to do it.

Cold start injector only fires if it's really quite cold. If your location is set correctly - you're actually in Sydney? - I rather doubt it's being used at all.

Compression and / or leakdown test is a good idea as well if you're concerned about a head gasket - or any other combustion chamber leaks, for that matter.

Turbo Habanero's advice about checking codes is well worth following.

 

[aloshan]

A few things to add.

Wideband can't hurt. Trying to gauge what your air fuel ratio is by smell, taste, or feel is pointless. Once you get that, let us know what your AFR really is. How rich is too rich? My car idles at mid 9 AFR when it's cold. Haven't had any problems with it yet. And while you can wash fuel past the rings and contaminate the oil, you have to be running REALLY rich to do it.

Cold start injector only fires if it's really quite cold. If your location is set correctly - you're actually in Sydney? - I rather doubt it's being used at all.

Compression and / or leakdown test is a good idea as well if you're concerned about a head gasket - or any other combustion chamber leaks, for that matter.

Turbo Habanero's advice about checking codes is well worth following.

thanks for the reply , yeah il get my hands on a good wideband (preferably an aem one....heard countless stories that innovate lc-1 has to be recalibrated all the time...not sure if this is true or not but might as well go with something tried and tested)

Yes Im in Sydney , It gets cold , but not really cold , as in not below 9 degrees lately ( and its spring now so the lowest it would drop would be about 12 degrees Celsius I assume)

Il have to do a leakdown test , but the engine itself when I drive seems perfectly fine..... like I said before coolant seems ok , but Im going to have a complete checkup done this weekend.

will update then.

Il have to check codes , my diagnostic port is pretty screwed though , hope it will work

 

[GrimJack]

The AEM wideband still has issues sometimes... I've recently switched to the new NGK unit, it's been fantastic so far. I've had the Innovate as well - that's still in my other car. Had no luck with the Zeitronix units, though, went through 2 of those.