Read the post. Forget Vf and look at the OX terminal. It's also there in the diagnostic connector.
running rich, used search, need help
- Thread starter MA70Snowman
- Start date
jetjock said:
okay the lightbulb finally lit, back in a second.
UPDATE: okay w/ T and E jumpered and multi between OX and E, i pulled about an avg of 480 at 2500rpms. unjumpered it was around 380 @ 2500rpms. which seems to all be in specs.
man i'm bloody confused now.
No, that's good. It proves the engine is in fuel control and the mixture is near stoich, if a tad lean. Your WB is wrong. I'm guessing the engine doesn't show any signs of running at 7.5 a/f either ie; bad fuel economy, black smoke, fluffy black plugs and tailpipe.
i was about to say
at 7.5 AFR.. geezes you would fumigate the entire neighborhood with the unmistakable smell of raw gasoline and massive amount of black smoke.
On the wideband, did you do a free air calibration prior to installing?
need to be careful as being as rich as you are you might foul up the wideband sensor.
at 7.5 AFR.. geezes you would fumigate the entire neighborhood with the unmistakable smell of raw gasoline and massive amount of black smoke.
On the wideband, did you do a free air calibration prior to installing?
need to be careful as being as rich as you are you might foul up the wideband sensor.
As simply as it is it's tough to do this over the internet. I have to rely on what you're seeing but it's been my experience time and again most people can't get the measurements down. It's sounds like you're doing it right though.
The bottom line is at a steady RPM if the engine is in fuel control the O2 sensor will swing between about 200-900 mv and have an average of about 425-475 mv. If it does this mixture is between 14-15 with 450 mv equaling 14.7 a/f. More than 450 mv is rich while less than 450 mv is lean.
Understand that doesn't necessarily mean the O2 sensor is in total command of the mixture. You'd need to look at injection duration to prove that. It also doesn't mean Vf will be at 2.2 volts but what it does prove is you're not running anywhere near 7.5 a/f. Figgie is right. I know squat about that particular WB but something is amiss with it.
The bottom line is at a steady RPM if the engine is in fuel control the O2 sensor will swing between about 200-900 mv and have an average of about 425-475 mv. If it does this mixture is between 14-15 with 450 mv equaling 14.7 a/f. More than 450 mv is rich while less than 450 mv is lean.
Understand that doesn't necessarily mean the O2 sensor is in total command of the mixture. You'd need to look at injection duration to prove that. It also doesn't mean Vf will be at 2.2 volts but what it does prove is you're not running anywhere near 7.5 a/f. Figgie is right. I know squat about that particular WB but something is amiss with it.
figgie said:
so am i rich or lean? lol i figured it was stoich? and yes i did a free air calibration, but I guess i'll try that again.
so as far as the stock system i'm good? I mean i can smell fuel, strong smell. and no black smoke, sometimes white smoke (but you have to be right at the tail pipe to see it, i don't see it out of the rearview.)
hey thanks JJ fo r just putting my mind at ease, as I stated aside from the fuel smell, and poor gas milage (but i also have a pretty heavy foot) there are really no symptoms, car runs fine, idles little high, and aside from the occassional pop on decel nothings really amiss.. i'll try a recalibrate later. I got called into work just a little while ago, i'll get back in a couple hours. thanks again
MA70Snowman said:
Ok what I know of the LC-1
you CAN adjust the AFR scale.
Are you 100% (not 99% or 99.9%) sure that you are using the gasoline AFR scale?
And then people wonder why I detest AFR scale and stick with lambda.
ninjaedit:
judging from the software. Sounds like you are using the Ethanol AFR scale.
Lambda is the only way to go. It's all I deal with when working with emissions and that's basically what this problem involves.
The fuel smell is puzzling unless it's an actual fuel leak somewhere. He could try unplugging the O2 sensor. If the system is working right it'll default to slightly rich, about 4% CO. Around a lambda of .9 iirc from working with my 5 gas. There should be no fuel smell at that mixture.
The fuel smell is puzzling unless it's an actual fuel leak somewhere. He could try unplugging the O2 sensor. If the system is working right it'll default to slightly rich, about 4% CO. Around a lambda of .9 iirc from working with my 5 gas. There should be no fuel smell at that mixture.
jetjock said:
I had that fuel smell.
it was the line from the fuel tank to the charcoal canister since it was open to air. Was venting the fumes into the bay
lambda of 1 or .9 (slightly rich)
to calculate lambda using afr
If using gasoline
11.2 Measure AFR / 14.6 (stioch of gasoline) = Lambda .76
14.6 Measured AFR / 14.6 (stioch of gasoline) = Lambda 1
.9 Lambda X 14.6 AFR (stioch of gasolin) = 13.14 AFR (Gasoline/Petrol)
do not confuse Lambda for NAMBLA
Oops, screwed that reply up. Yeah, what a difference a decimal point makes. There are a few online lambda calculators but my analyzer computes it for me. I have the actual formula for computing it using all 5 gases around here somewhere. Just looking at it makes my head spin
Funny thing
Motec uses Lambda natively not AFR scale. It can be made to display AFR but I love lambda so much.
Regardless o fuel.. stioch = lambda 1.
Motec uses Lambda natively not AFR scale. It can be made to display AFR but I love lambda so much.
Regardless o fuel.. stioch = lambda 1.
Yes, a division of the actual a/f into perfect regardless of fuel used. If both are equal it's gonna be 1. One of my analyzers does lambda for multiple fuels. Propane, LNG, gasoline, etc. Nice to have but I've never used it for than than gasoline. WBs are nice but they still only measure one thing. Sometimes people lose sight of that.
You need more air ,with a lexus afm. You are still running on a stock afm and have 550 injectors.
please read the first post and the continuing posts. NO 550s.suprahooked said:
also i'm 100% sure that its set to gasoline. i'll try recalibrating morrow see how that fixes the issues. after driving around a little today, was watching the gauge a little more intently. it seems to be working fine (it fluxuates when i expect it and w/ in normal readings) but cruising it'll level itself off to about 7.4 and underboost its about 8, and accelerating it'll settle around 9. i mean it peaks at higher and lower but give it some time in those circumstances and it settles in those numbers.
Maybe I'm confused but I thought the 550 thing got resolved early on in the thread. Snowman: Get the cruise part straightened out first. Open loop and WOT is a different story altogether.
i'll be recalibrating tomorrow morning we'll see how that changes things up, if at all. I'm tempted to pull the fuse and reset everything and let it relearn it all, see if that doesn't unfk anything as well. get back to you guys morrow.
What, the EFI fuse? Sorry, doesn't work that way in spite of what many people believe. From what I see there isn't much wrong with your engine. Your WB on the other hand....
jetjock said:
well recalibrated the WB today, even installed the LED and the pushbotton for easier calibration further on down the road. and i'm reading 14.5, pretty stoich IMHO. i'm guessing any or all problems (WB aside) was probably from that T where the charc can used to be.
I'd like to thank JJ for all the assistance, i'm cutting all the fat out of this thread and keeping it in word for futur problems. I definatly liked the know how of checking the RAW 0X data. thanks again.
MODS please close the thread.