replacing REAR timing cover gasket preparation

[IwantMKIII]

Its that time of year again where I have really random bad luck with the car. At least this year I don't have to replace the chassis, first time in 3 years :naughty:.

No, this year its the rear timing cover gasket. Decided to slowly leak coolant (originally thought to be water pump gasket), now stream out after i pulled a chunk of gasket out right around the pump near the one water pipe that runs around the engine block. Few things:

1. Tips? Suggestions on other things to look over as the engine is coming out. I'd like to make a list and order ALL parts I need ahead of time so I have no surprises (though we all know its inevitable)

2. I have my worries about head removal. I'm using HKS Stopper, now about 20-25K since its rebuild. Is it possible to remove this cover w/o removing the head? Or is this ill-advised? I would definitely prefer not to remove the head as I don't want to risk it not sealing again.

3. If the head must be removed, what are the steps to reuse the HKS Stopper if that is possible. Also, are the ARP head studs ok to be used again?

4. I've noticed randomly and rarely that car will throw some white smoke at idle (only hot, noticed when at stop lights). It doesn't happen very often and goes away once i hit the throttle and/or burn it out. I noticed when i caused the leak to get worse, the smoke got much worse and consistent. Is this coincidence or is somehow coolant getting into the chambers from this leak?

-Thanks in advance

 

[IJ.]

#2 = no

#3 = search my username and mhg reuse I did a big thread covering awhile ago

 

[IwantMKIII]

Keeping this here for later reference and anyone else who stumbles across the thread down the road: http://www.supramania.com/forums/showthread.php?27519-*MHG-Reuse*/page8

This is the thread you were referring to, correct?

 

[IJ.]

Yep that's the one!
(sorry would have linked it but it was late last night so I needed my beauty sleep )

 

[IwantMKIII]

IJ, i've been browsing through that thread among a couple others. For you and maybe you know for some of the others, did you and anyone else resurface the head or is resurfacing not needed for a situation like this, or maybe case by case. If case by case, what should I be looking for? Also, what should I be looking for to render the gasket unusable. I noticed one other person had hairline cracks in their MHG so obviously that's one thing to look for. TIA.

PS, im in the middle of a move from WV to PA, so if I missed something obvious, sorry don't tear me apart lol.

 

[IJ.]

Well per usual check the head for hardness and with a straight edge and if it has any surface damage that can be felt with a fingertip it'll need surfacing.

Check the MHG around the dowel holes as this is where cracks usually start.

 

[IwantMKIII]

I've recently come into some money, old life insurance policy I discovered while moving. Since this is a stopper gasket (best out there i'm aware of) would it be better to just reuse it or just by a new middle of the road (non stopper) HG and sell the used one i have (given its in good condition)? I know there is no for sure answer to this, just trying to gather opinions.

 

[PROJECT N00b]

Buy a stone engine gasket set, it comes with pretty much every gasket needed for an overhaul.

 

[IwantMKIII]

^honestly, i'm afraid to use anything other than toyota gaskets (minus HG of course) now for the parts i'm dealing with. I believe the gasket used on my rear seal was felpro, based on the material I pulled from it, and after reading other peoples horror stories with the felpro gaskets used in these areas i'm staying as far away from non Toyota parts as possible. Thanks for the suggestion, either way I will look into it and weigh options and final costs.

 

[IwantMKIII]

Would someone be willing to explain WHY the head must be removed for this job. I know the head clamps down onto the rear plate (i've never seen one off) but I would imagine it only clamps down on a small amount, so why wouldn't it be able to just slide off once the rear plate is unfastened from the block itself. Or if its too tight slightly loosen the head to remove it without breaking the seal (if that's possible). Again, i've never done this, nor seen it done, I'm just having a hard time understanding/visualizing why its so important.

 

[IJ.]

The Cover is wedged between the Head and the Pan, you might luck out and gey one to seal properly but very doubtful you'll seal up both, up to you but for me it's just not worth the risk to halfass it.

 

[IwantMKIII]

I can see why it would be an issue on the oil side to not seal I just don't understand the head side if it doesn't sealing. If it doesn't seal on the head side does water flow through that area or something? I don't understand what the head side sealing with the rear timing plate actually seal.

 

[IJ.]

I can see why it would be an issue on the oil side to not seal I just don't understand the head side if it doesn't sealing. If it doesn't seal on the head side does water flow through that area or something?

It seal Oil as well it's the gap between the timing case and the block....

I have NFI why you're persisting with trying to justify doing a half assed botch repair.

I'm NOT making this shit up go ahead do it your way but don't piss and moan when it leaks like a collander.

 

[IwantMKIII]

Once again you're looking too far into this, all I did was ask why becase I didn't understand what exactly it seals. I never said I wouldn't remove the head, it's been my plan since your first post.

 

[gaboonviper85]

Adam I've already made this very clear as to why the head must come off....ij is telling everying I've already said! You complain that your car gives you troubles every year, so stop bullshitting and do this the right way...the way I've been telling you to do it for awhile now.

Head MUST come off because of this!!

---------- Post added at 08:56 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:55 PM ----------

Behind that cover is a huge waterfall of motor oil that drains from the head and back into the oil pan!

 

[88 Blue_Dragon]

he's just asking if its gonna leak if he leaves the head on and pulls the plate. trying to figure out if something is going to work without having to pull the head is not half ass. pulling the head is a pain in the ass. lighten up guys.

 

[gaboonviper85]

he's just asking if its gonna leak if he leaves the head on and pulls the plate. trying to figure out if something is going to work without having to pull the head is not half ass. pulling the head is a pain in the ass. lighten up guys.

It may or may not....but if it does then it's an oil leak that will require pulling the engine again! Not to mention that if he tries to do it without head removal and the water gasket behind that plate gets damage, he will litterally pumping coolant directly into his oil pan!!!! There is so much wrong that it's not even worth asking if it can be done!

 

[IwantMKIII]

---------- Post added at 08:56 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:55 PM ----------

Behind that cover is a huge waterfall of motor oil that drains from the head and back
into the oil pan!

This is all I needed to see since the beginning now i understand.

 

[88 Blue_Dragon]

yeah it figures that it would be something like that. i wondered what would happen myself, i didn't know what that plate was really there for. thats why you guys are here to help lol. you'd be SOL if the coolant hit your bearings lol

 

[IwantMKIII]

he's just asking if its gonna leak if he leaves the head on and pulls the plate. trying to figure out if something is going to work without having to pull the head is not half ass. pulling the head is a pain in the ass. lighten up guys.

I was in a way, but i wasn't. I already KNEW i had to pull the head. All I was trying to figure out was WHY. I thought I made this very clear when I asked originally, instead I get my head bitten off, but whatever. I now understand why it needs to be done thanks to the picture, so i'm satisfied.