Replacement Speakers Sound Worse-Advice Please
- Thread starter ChadMKIII
- Start date
I've never heard of anyone making a 5x9. Ovals come in 4x10, 4x6, 5x7, 6x8, 6x9 and a couple of odd ball 6x10.
The reason it seems the stockers sound better is because they are mounted in a tuned enclosure specific to their theile/small parameters. Most modern replacments are not designed to reproduce low end freq. Even if their specs say they extend down to say 30 hrtz it doesn't mean they do it well. Replacement speaker manufacturers assume/want you to buy subs. As far as a recomendation I recently Install a pair of Pioneers Rev series 6x8 into a customers car and I was very surprise by the low end extension. These speakers feature a very large soft dome tweeter. and a real pasiive crossover attached to the mag. If you really don't want a sub see if you can listen to a set of these. I am going to try to fit 2 pairs of these into my supra . they should fit with some sort of baffle replacing the enclosure.
The reason it seems the stockers sound better is because they are mounted in a tuned enclosure specific to their theile/small parameters. Most modern replacments are not designed to reproduce low end freq. Even if their specs say they extend down to say 30 hrtz it doesn't mean they do it well. Replacement speaker manufacturers assume/want you to buy subs. As far as a recomendation I recently Install a pair of Pioneers Rev series 6x8 into a customers car and I was very surprise by the low end extension. These speakers feature a very large soft dome tweeter. and a real pasiive crossover attached to the mag. If you really don't want a sub see if you can listen to a set of these. I am going to try to fit 2 pairs of these into my supra . they should fit with some sort of baffle replacing the enclosure.
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Are those the kevlar cone pioneers? (yellow cone)
Oh and it's nice to have someone else here who knows their audio shit
Welcome aboard ye scurvy!
Oh and it's nice to have someone else here who knows their audio shit
Welcome aboard ye scurvy!Yeah the yellow cones. And if any bod has any audio questions please feel free to ask. I'm a pro installer with 16 years under my belt and over 8000 installs. I hate to see people waste their money or time.
Sometimes stock speakers knock as good as aftermarket speakers, if the aftermarket ones suck or if they're 4 inch. Either ways you should get a decent sub and an amp. If you want I got both for sale.
If I'm off at all, please correct any of these statements:
Already been said, but Infinity>Pioneer but similar sound quality. *Edit* "Characteristics, not quality"
Amps just help to eliminate distortion when you turn it up(I.E. if it sounds bad at lower volumes now, an amp wont do shit.)
Any set of decent component speakers will give you more bass and clearer mids/highs.
Already been said, but Infinity>Pioneer but similar sound quality. *Edit* "Characteristics, not quality"
Amps just help to eliminate distortion when you turn it up(I.E. if it sounds bad at lower volumes now, an amp wont do shit.)
Any set of decent component speakers will give you more bass and clearer mids/highs.
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ChadMKIII said:
Responded. Amps and subs don't add much weight in the grand scheme of things, plus they're really easy to install and you can hear the music with the windows down.
Hey annoyingrob. In response to your question about rear fill... I feel that is a really subjective topic . If I were designing a system for IASCA or USAC competitions I would say rear fill is supposed to just give you ambeiance and depth of feild or staging. Kind of like sitting in the 7th row at a concert, the main sound is supposed to come from in front of you.... But... I don't like going to concerts. The bands never sound as good. I grew up in the night clubs of New York and Miami so Ilike to be surrounded by my music. I also play the drums so I like my music to sound like I'm standing in the middle of the band.
As far as what I like or rather what i think would be ideal , I would love to be able to build a system for a car using just 5 speakers .
2 large compression drivers running about 30-50 watts
2 10" or 12" light weight mid bass drivers at about 100-150 watts
1 solo X kicker in a sealed box running about 2400 watts
this would pretty much sound like a night club on wheels but really wouldn't be practical in a Supra.
I want to keep my Supra stock looking so I'll be doing 4 6x8's in the stock loc's and maybe a 12" kicker L7 .
As far as what I like or rather what i think would be ideal , I would love to be able to build a system for a car using just 5 speakers .
2 large compression drivers running about 30-50 watts
2 10" or 12" light weight mid bass drivers at about 100-150 watts
1 solo X kicker in a sealed box running about 2400 watts
this would pretty much sound like a night club on wheels but really wouldn't be practical in a Supra.
I want to keep my Supra stock looking so I'll be doing 4 6x8's in the stock loc's and maybe a 12" kicker L7 .
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uhh how will 6x8's look stock? Besides, oval speakers sound like shiz in my opinion. I would say if you're going to go with a kicker, get a compvx, not an L7. Square subs are all hype. "More surface area!" Horseshit. Corners aren't gonna do shit. Compvx's are the same basic build as an l7 in a round package, which lends itself MUCH better to custom installs.
just my .02
just my .02
Um ... draw a 15" circle... then draw a 15" square ... Which has the greater area? More cone area = more air moved per excursion. And the comp vr and the L7 have very different types of cone mass. I've installed every style kicker there is into many different cars each has their purpose. No speaker and I mean no speaker is the "best" for every app. The comp vr series is a good choice if you want high output and can afford the space for a vented enclosure.
As far as the comment about ovals. First of all if you read earlier in the thread they would have to be mounted on custom baffles behind the stock grills. As far as sound quality goes most coaxes sound like crap round or oval.
But that is due to the cheap mids and tweeters and lack of proper crossovers not their shape.
Let me let you in on a little secret so that you can get past you fear of odd shaped speakers.... The reason speakers are mostly round has little to do with sound or tonal quality. It has to do with ease of manufacturing. It is easier to machine round parts than anyother shape.
As far as the comment about ovals. First of all if you read earlier in the thread they would have to be mounted on custom baffles behind the stock grills. As far as sound quality goes most coaxes sound like crap round or oval.
But that is due to the cheap mids and tweeters and lack of proper crossovers not their shape.
Let me let you in on a little secret so that you can get past you fear of odd shaped speakers.... The reason speakers are mostly round has little to do with sound or tonal quality. It has to do with ease of manufacturing. It is easier to machine round parts than anyother shape.
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Well there Mr. Attitude...
1.) You sure are right...and I wrote gullible on the ceiling too! :nono: the whole square sub "MORE SURFACE AREA!" thing is bullshit. Reason being, the corners (the only extra surface area over a round sub) are almost flat, which leaves them not being able to "scoop" too much air.
2.) If you re-read like an intelligent human being I never even mentioned a comp vr I believe the speaker I mentioned was a comp vx. Evidently you haven't installed every kicker speaker.
3.) Since you admit co-ax's sound like shit, then why use them? Man up, do some custom work and throw some components in there.
4.) Let me let you in on a little secret, oval speakers produce more distortion, it's a proven fact.
TTL: 1
T4L: 0
1.) You sure are right...and I wrote gullible on the ceiling too! :nono: the whole square sub "MORE SURFACE AREA!" thing is bullshit. Reason being, the corners (the only extra surface area over a round sub) are almost flat, which leaves them not being able to "scoop" too much air.
2.) If you re-read like an intelligent human being I never even mentioned a comp vr I believe the speaker I mentioned was a comp vx. Evidently you haven't installed every kicker speaker.
3.) Since you admit co-ax's sound like shit, then why use them? Man up, do some custom work and throw some components in there.
4.) Let me let you in on a little secret, oval speakers produce more distortion, it's a proven fact.
TTL: 1
T4L: 0
comp vr vx whatever both need larger enclosure than the L7.
Scoop the air ????? WTF??? some of the loudest systems on earth are flat piston type speakers . Cone shape doesn't cause distortion cone flex does. Proven fact, where?
The vr and vx share the L7 voicecoil and motor structure elements but do not have the cone density. therefore cannot compress air as well with out cone deflection.
As far as maning up and doing custom work it would be easier to do components 6's or 5's in the door and domes on the dash. But the Idea wa to get good midbass response and maintain a stock look . The custom work would be in tucking a 6x8 or maybe 8" round in the place of the stock 4.
And I said MOST ovals and coaxes sound like crap but did you read why?
It is pretty well know that the best sound quality is acheived when all the frequencies come from one focal point. thats why a lot of high end components give you the option of mounting the tweeter in the center of the driver like a coax. Usually that only works well in a car where the speeker is mount higher in the door like in a supra.
If you want to dicuss speaker theory and design I'm more than happy to give my opinion. But the tone your taking is arguementative especially with the little score thing you've got going on. I've been a professional installer for 16 years, competed and judged in IASCA and USAC. I've built demo cars for Stiger, PIE and Cadence and have over 8,000 installs worth of experience .
As I stated earlier in this thread speaker selection is subjective. Most of your statements have been in absolutes. This sucks thats the best. This leads me to believe that you haven't seen enough to know better . The only absolutes I have seen in this business is no speaker is the best , no amp is the best and no electronics are the best. whether its price , quality or pursose al have their pros and cons.
Scoop the air ????? WTF??? some of the loudest systems on earth are flat piston type speakers . Cone shape doesn't cause distortion cone flex does. Proven fact, where?
The vr and vx share the L7 voicecoil and motor structure elements but do not have the cone density. therefore cannot compress air as well with out cone deflection.
As far as maning up and doing custom work it would be easier to do components 6's or 5's in the door and domes on the dash. But the Idea wa to get good midbass response and maintain a stock look . The custom work would be in tucking a 6x8 or maybe 8" round in the place of the stock 4.
And I said MOST ovals and coaxes sound like crap but did you read why?
It is pretty well know that the best sound quality is acheived when all the frequencies come from one focal point. thats why a lot of high end components give you the option of mounting the tweeter in the center of the driver like a coax. Usually that only works well in a car where the speeker is mount higher in the door like in a supra.
If you want to dicuss speaker theory and design I'm more than happy to give my opinion. But the tone your taking is arguementative especially with the little score thing you've got going on. I've been a professional installer for 16 years, competed and judged in IASCA and USAC. I've built demo cars for Stiger, PIE and Cadence and have over 8,000 installs worth of experience .
As I stated earlier in this thread speaker selection is subjective. Most of your statements have been in absolutes. This sucks thats the best. This leads me to believe that you haven't seen enough to know better . The only absolutes I have seen in this business is no speaker is the best , no amp is the best and no electronics are the best. whether its price , quality or pursose al have their pros and cons.
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I never said anything about "this or that is the best", not once. I believe in the same basic fundamentals you do, it seems; no speaker is best, they each have their own application.
I see where you're coming from about the flat piston drivers, but with a "scoop" as I like to call it, there is more air to be moved. The way I like to think of it is like this, how much soup can a dinner plate hold as opposed to a bowl?
I'll have to try to find the article showing distortion differences between oval and coaxial speakers. Wherever it was, they took 2 of the same make/model of speakers, one in 6.5 and one in 6x9 and measured the distortion determining the oval had higher levels of distortion.
From what I've been taught, sound is best reproduced using the fewest number of drivers possible, each with it's own assigned frequency range. Where I'm going with this, I don't know. Another thing I was taught was that as long as you keep the tweeter within a distance that is equal to the size of the woofer, your imaging will stay true (I.E. 5.25" component set; place tweeter no more than 5.25 inches away from woofer).
If I came off as argumentative, I'm sorry, but IMO you came off with the attitude first. The score thing was a joke btw.
Curiosity is striking: who do you install for?
I see where you're coming from about the flat piston drivers, but with a "scoop" as I like to call it, there is more air to be moved. The way I like to think of it is like this, how much soup can a dinner plate hold as opposed to a bowl?
I'll have to try to find the article showing distortion differences between oval and coaxial speakers. Wherever it was, they took 2 of the same make/model of speakers, one in 6.5 and one in 6x9 and measured the distortion determining the oval had higher levels of distortion.
From what I've been taught, sound is best reproduced using the fewest number of drivers possible, each with it's own assigned frequency range. Where I'm going with this, I don't know. Another thing I was taught was that as long as you keep the tweeter within a distance that is equal to the size of the woofer, your imaging will stay true (I.E. 5.25" component set; place tweeter no more than 5.25 inches away from woofer).
If I came off as argumentative, I'm sorry, but IMO you came off with the attitude first. The score thing was a joke btw.
Curiosity is striking: who do you install for?
Right now I'm operations manager for Auto Security and Audio Pro. We're a expiditor to car dealerships. For 12 years before that I work for Auto Action dist. out of Union NJ. I also freelance at a couple of local shops and marinas.But i really don't have time for that much anymore ASAP, the company I'm with now is growing really fast . I need to hire 2 instalers this month and will probably need 4 more by april.
If I had to venture a guess I would say that you work for a big chain like Best buy or Circiut City. CC tried to hire me about 4-5 years ago to manage one of their roadshops but they only offered like 14.75 an hour. Right now I'm offering 17 an hour for installers but its hard to find good people.
If I had to venture a guess I would say that you work for a big chain like Best buy or Circiut City. CC tried to hire me about 4-5 years ago to manage one of their roadshops but they only offered like 14.75 an hour. Right now I'm offering 17 an hour for installers but its hard to find good people.
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Ooooh you're good I do work for CC, but only because when I applied at some of the higher end shops...well I actually had one laugh in my face because I'm 18; I promptly told him to fuck off and left.
I've been into car audio ever since the age of 14. Started installing when I was around 16 and I've been in love since then. I kinda do a little bit of both at CC (Sales and install).
If you're thinking "jeez this guy thinks an L7 is the best sub on the planet" think again, I actually would stay away from almost everything we sell at CC. Maybe a source unit since I get them so cheap (Eclipse AVN7000 for 1200 anyone?) Im actually looking into picking up a TREO SSi 12" and a zapco reference 750.1
Anyway, sorry for the "argumentative" attitude once again, hopefully we audiophiles can get along from now on
I do work for CC, but only because when I applied at some of the higher end shops...well I actually had one laugh in my face because I'm 18; I promptly told him to fuck off and left.I've been into car audio ever since the age of 14. Started installing when I was around 16 and I've been in love since then. I kinda do a little bit of both at CC (Sales and install).
If you're thinking "jeez this guy thinks an L7 is the best sub on the planet" think again, I actually would stay away from almost everything we sell at CC. Maybe a source unit since I get them so cheap (Eclipse AVN7000 for 1200 anyone?) Im actually looking into picking up a TREO SSi 12" and a zapco reference 750.1
Anyway, sorry for the "argumentative" attitude once again, hopefully we audiophiles can get along from now on
hey no problem . Any way I've kinda gotten away from using truly high end equipment in most cars because once you get past a certian point you can only hear the difference while not in motion and sitting quiet and still. Not really what most supra owners do in their cars heh? hey If you ever get out to the east coast and need a job let me know.
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Hell at this point I'd damn near move anywhere for work...circuit city is killing me with this 8.75/hour bullshit