Reground cams / valve clearance issue

[White Zombie]

Ok I've got reground cams from SIP racing , I installed them with his " shims " and I was wondering if anyone is using his cams or the like ?

Reason I ask is , I'm not feeling real comfortable with putting shims under the buckets, in addition to using the regular stock shims on top.
Although it does " fill the void " the reground cams made , I would think The extra weight of the shims or the extra shims would cause some chatter or something.
Any input on wether this is something to worry about or not would help. Thanks

 

[Enraged]

I'd trust Rich at SIP, he's built some very high hp motors.

 

[CT26smoker]

I haven't seen his solution, but I think I know what your talking about.
Are they like small diameter caps that sit over the valve stem ?
If so, these are very common, and as long as you set the cams correctly with OEM shims on top,
those caps can't go anywhere.

Much better than the way some people do it with overly thick OEM shims on top that weigh a ton.

 

[Enraged]

if its like mine, i have some on my regrinds, its basically shim stock that is punched out, they fit under the shim in the top of the bucket.

 

[White Zombie]

Ok , yes they are the shim stock that sit on the valve stem, under the bucket .

So Enraged, your shims are under the shims ? , on top of the bucket ?

And Im sorry , but I won't entrust Rich/ SIP with anything of mine ever again. Maybe he cares for his own motors, but he sure left mine a fucking mess when he did the machine work and assembly for me ! And he never reimbursed me for his mistakes , just made excuses !
This is the very reason why I am questioning his methods on taking up the valve clearance in the first place .
Sorry for ranting

 

[IndyMK3]

please go into more details on mistakes..... the short block i had put together from him was flawless.....

 

[Enraged]

mine are round thin shim stock (can't remember the exact size, something like 0.01" or something) with the centers cut out, like an O, and they are under the shim, on top of the bucket. mine are regrinds i bought used from nashman, who got them from colt cams IIRC. i got the shim stock parts from them, but i still required oversize valve shims (around 2.95-3.15mm) which i got from Cylinder Head Supply

 

[IJ.]

mine are round thin shim stock (can't remember the exact size, something like 0.01" or something) with the centers cut out, like an O, and they are under the shim, on top of the bucket. mine are regrinds i bought used from nashman, who got them from colt cams IIRC. i got the shim stock parts from them, but i still required oversize valve shims (around 2.95-3.15mm) which i got from Cylinder Head Supply

Wouldn't be revving that too hard

 

[Enraged]

not planning too. stock turbo for now, so not much flow up top anyways

 

[White Zombie]

Yeah, I was thinking that two shims would be pushing it up top too . I'm glad thats it's worked for you so far.

As far a details about SIP's build goes...

I sent him my block and head for him to machine , including arp's, eagle's, probes, BC valve train , and his (sip) reground cams.He was supposed assemble the short block. When I got it back, after waiting more than two months, I noticed the oil shaft bearings weren't replaced . Then upon installing the oil pan , I noticed one of the plugs in the crankshaft missing ! So I pulled everything apart.
Basically he never tapped a single hole before putting in the studs, he never removed the oil plugs from the crank , leaving them full of burnt oil goo. The piston rings weren't set apart at their proper spacing, the block and crank were so dirty, my motor wouldn't have last 5 minutes !!
Add to this the dirty cylinder head , yes all the shims and buckets had metal shavings in them. Looked like he ground my spacer shims for my cams and just threw em in there . He told me all these parts were ready to go , but if that's true why didn't he set the valve lash !? After I started my motor, I had NO vaccum . Alas I found that only 4 of the 24 valves were even closing AT ALL .
Which brings me back to the first question , are these shims a good idea in the first place . ? Nothing else he touched was any good so I figured this was just another BS session.

 

[IJ.]

Underbucket Shims are a way to do it but it does add mass to the valvetrain, much better than undershim shims though

 

[White Zombie]

Thanks guys , that's helps out .
Although has anyone ever come up with a better option ? Say something that could reduce mass ? Or at least reduce the number of parts floating around over the valve ?
I've heard of the " shimless " buckets and " shim under buckets " , but these still only take up "stock" amounts of lash .

 

[IJ.]

I ran shimless in my 7M.

Expensive and clumsy if you need to adjust lash.

 

[White Zombie]

Expensive and clumsy is fine with me , but what to do about the extra clearance?

I know I know , Buy expensive cams ! Lol

 

[IJ.]

JZ valves with the heads cut down to be +1mm over 7M ones, JZ are longer stems and might put you within the range of Shimless buckets.

1SZ-FE 1000cc Echo

13751-23030 5.12
13751-23040 5.14
13751-23050 5.16
13751-23060 5.18
13751-23070 5.20
13751-23080 5.22
13751-23090 5.24
13751-23100 5.26
13751-23110 5.28
13751-23120 5.30
13751-23130 5.32
13751-23140 5.34
13751-23150 5.36
13751-23160 5.38
13751-23170 5.40
13751-23180 5.42
13751-23190 5.44
13751-23200 5.46
13751-23210 5.48
13751-23220 5.50
13751-23230 5.52
13751-23240 5.54
13751-23250 5.56
13751-23260 5.58
13751-23270 5.60
13751-23280 5.62
13751-23290 5.64
13751-23300 5.66
13751-23310 5.68

 

[SWD Fredester 3]

I ran shimless in my 7M.

Expensive and clumsy if you need to adjust lash.

OK. And WZ I hope you don't mind me jumping in here. I'm about ready to redo my head before it ever starts. Ian you know my set up-SIP billet cams, Ferrea +1 valves w/ BC comp springs. With this set up do you foresee any problems with changing to shimless buckets? I'm still not happy about not being able to get the Ferrea dual spring set up to work with the valve stem seals, but given that, I don't like the idea of having an 8K ceiling with shims.

 

[IJ.]

I ran duals in my 7M Fred, stem seals weren't anything fancy just the Viton ones I got in the MDS kits.

All depends on how close everything comes to "stock" as that's the range the Shimless buckets are designed to work in, i.e. Valve depth/tip height, the base circle on the Billet cam's "Should" be the same as stock....

 

[White Zombie]

Yeah sounds like you need to measure your overall installed height first . Make sure everything fits BEFORE you get the head installed like me :-(

I like the idea of the jz valves but I already had the BC ones Installed .