Rebuild Now running like POOP

[suprafanatic]

i agree with 88suprafast1, some people on here are to quick to critisize.. sure people might post, or say something stupid/silly/doesnt make since, but try to help alittle longer rather than critisize.. doesnt help anything... anyway.... 88suprafast1, your problem could simply be from your car running way to rich, if you threw on large injectors like you did with out tuning devices your car will not run very well. get a wideband and SAFC and tune it. your car should deffinitly run better.

 

[88supraFAST1]

When you put the stock afm back on did you put the stock injectors back in?

And when you put the maftpro back in make sure you double check that you have everything hooked up right and going where it needs to go!

No i did not put my stock inj back in. Everything is hooked up right i have triple checked them, all connections are soldered

 

[jdub]

i agree with 88suprafast1, some people on here are to quick to critisize.. sure people might post, or say something stupid/silly/doesnt make since, but try to help alittle longer rather than critisize.. doesnt help anything... anyway....

So let me get this right...we as moderators/SME's should tolerate stupidity, bad information, poor problem description even though it turns into a frustrating waste of time? We should always play the "20 question game" to make sure the person with the problem provides accurate info and do whatever it takes to help that individual solve the problem. And have no expectation of that person to provide useful info or to have any knowledge at all about how this car works?

If any of the above is true, you seriously need to get a grip. :3d_frown:

This should be required reading to be able to post on SM:
Dealing with the "Oldschool" Guys

 

[88supraFAST1]

Grow a thicker skin...JJ was not rude at all. His comments were based on what you said in post #7...there's no one here that's a mind reader. Perhaps you should be more clear about the problem and provide the detail to help. The guys with real knowledge here are happy to help those that help themself. Otherwise, you just might be allowed to continue your flailing about.

I checked my codes trouble shoot what was causing them to come on, read the information about what they are. and are proceeding to fix them, the guy never asked me to give him the codes i have and then give him a write up about what each one was, he asked a simple question "Check for codes?" from there i told him what they where. I don't ask of any one to be a mind reader but maybe read the whole thread before you go on and post something that is completely back words of what some one actually posted about in the first place. Now im sorry but im trying not to be rude or an ass about anything but when your mind is trying to grasp a lot of information plus other personal things in life, It is sometimes hard to remember to tell everything that is wrong in one post.

Thank you for your help.
LO

 

[rumptis]

No i did not put my stock inj back in. Everything is hooked up right i have triple checked them, all connections are soldered

If you are running 750cc injectors and have stock electronics...the thing will be running so rich there is no way it will run right.

Dumping in close to twice the fuel that it should have is not a good thing. You need to put in the stock injectors and start from square one.

 

[jdub]

Let me refresh your memory concerning the sequence of your problem:

Post #6

Check for codes?

Post #7

i have code 24 31 51. Code 24 and 31 are afm related and 51 is ac switch.

Post #8

Just a minor detail you forgot to mention! :aigo:

Post #10

i did that it revs and everything, just still running rich witch would be because of the 720's.

No mention of ECU codes...response to fuel pressure. Sure looks like you're ignoring the significance of ECU codes to me.

Post #11

Lmao. Not only does he forget to mention the codes but then goes on to ignore them...

Post #13

i told him the codes. my fuel is at stock im just trying to get the thing running right so i can set the rings and get it to a dyno.

Don't even ask what the codes mean...again, a single track focus on fuel.

Post #14

Then fix them. There's enough information on this forum about code 51 to choke a goat yet you, with 270 posts, still think it has to do with the ac switch. Plus you seem to expect the engine to run right without a valid load signal, one of two critical inputs the engine can't operate without. The ECU is telling you what's wrong but instead of addressing those problems you waffle on about injectors, MaftPro, etc, even admitting you're "kinda stumped". Wtf?

This is all truth...code 51 has been beat to death, but you can't seem to take the time to look it up. Instead you stay on the track and ignore the only good advise you've been given in this whole thread.

Post #16

JJ - thank you for the constructive criticism, ever body has been at MR 270 posts. Hell even you where there one day, thank you for being rude to someone who is just trying to look for some help. What a community of supra owners this is.

Thank you to everyone else that has given me positive help because one day when you need help I will try my best just like you did.

Just don't get it...JJ is saying with 270 posts you should have been around long enough to understand the significance of ECU codes and figured out how to use the search button. There's even a tutorial on how to search for Christ's sake. Then you insult the best guy here that can help you solve this.
.

This is not about post count, or even you don't have really any idea of how the EFI system in this car works (rumptis called it...it's obvious). It's your resistance to accepting any REAL help and your insistence it "must be some fuel issue" (it is, but that's not all). Then whining "he never asked me" (why should we have to) and "read the whole thread" (I did and this is the result) and "trying to grasp a lot of information" (but no questions, just defensive reactions).

Some of you guys have this perspective that posting a problem on here requires a response and should be spoon fed to them...suggest you re-think that. Myself and most of the other "oldschool guys" will help those that put out effort and read/gather enough info to ask an intelligent question.


Now that we've had a reality check, some advice you can listen to or continue to chase your tail:
- Get those huge injectors off there and do some reading as to why it's a bad idea to run injectors that size on a stock ECU.
- Your cold start injector has nothing to do with this.
- Fix the code 51 (hint: has nothing to do with the AC unless the AC switch is pressed)...search is your friend.

 

[WhtMa71]

To get this back on track..
Like someone already said, you'll need to put the stock injectors back in if you have the stock afm hooked back up. The stock afm is for running 440 injectors, 780s would be waaaaaaaayy to rich.
Do that a fix your codes. Once all that is good, try putting the maft back in, but i might be a good idea to run smalled injectors than what you have anyways.

 

[88supraFAST1]

Let me refresh your memory concerning the sequence of your problem:

Post #6


Post #7


Post #8


Post #10

No mention of ECU codes...response to fuel pressure. Sure looks like you're ignoring the significance of ECU codes to me.

Post #11


Post #13

Don't even ask what the codes mean...again, a single track focus on fuel.

Post #14

This is all truth...code 51 has been beat to death, but you can't seem to take the time to look it up. Instead you stay on the track and ignore the only good advise you've been given in this whole thread.

Post #16

Just don't get it...JJ is saying with 270 posts you should have been around long enough to understand the significance of ECU codes and figured out how to use the search button. There's even a tutorial on how to search for Christ's sake. Then you insult the best guy here that can help you solve this.
.

This is not about post count, or even you don't have really any idea of how the EFI system in this car works (rumptis called it...it's obvious). It's your resistance to accepting any REAL help and your insistence it "must be some fuel issue" (it is, but that's not all). Then whining "he never asked me" (why should we have to) and "read the whole thread" (I did and this is the result) and "trying to grasp a lot of information" (but no questions, just defensive reactions).

Some of you guys have this perspective that posting a problem on here requires a response and should be spoon fed to them...suggest you re-think that. Myself and most of the other "oldschool guys" will help those that put out effort and read/gather enough info to ask an intelligent question.


Now that we've had a reality check, some advice you can listen to or continue to chase your tail:
- Get those huge injectors off there and do some reading as to why it's a bad idea to run injectors that size on a stock ECU.
- Your cold start injector has nothing to do with this.
- Fix the code 51 (hint: has nothing to do with the AC unless the AC switch is pressed)...search is your friend.

You know your right im sorry i Should have been alittle more clear on what my problem is, Im sorry for making a big deal out of this. My BAD. But i feel like i never ignored anyone if i have im sorry. now if we could get this on the right track for the better that would be cool.

 

[jdub]

Alright then

A couple assumptions based on reading this...LMK if I'm correct:
- You want to run speed density of the MAFT and eliminate the AFM
- You want the MAFT to control boost

First:
- Get your stock injectors, get them cleaned and installed.
- To fix code 51 is a simple adjustment in most cases:
http://www.cygnusx1.net/supra/Library/TSRM/MK3/manual.aspx?S=FI&P=101
Search for more info...or, just read this:
http://www.supramania.com/forums/showthread.php?t=46793
- Get the car running on stock components (no MAFT yet) and broken in.
Search for proper engine break-in...use straight 30W oil
- If you don't have a wideband O2, highly suggest you get one
- Add the MAFT and switch over to what you want to do one thing at a time...i.e boost control working right, then speed density.
Get a basic tune on the 440's
- Add bigger injectors...550's should be plenty big enough

This is a stepping stone approach that will allow you to get your new motor broke in without risking washing down the cylinders w/ too much fuel. It will also allow you to know when/what caused something to not go as planned

I do not have a MAFT-Pro, so not a lot of help from me. There is quite a bit of info in the Piggyback section though.

 

[88supraFAST1]

Alright then

A couple assumptions based on reading this...LMK if I'm correct:
- You want to run speed density of the MAFT and eliminate the AFM
- You want the MAFT to control boost

First:
- Get your stock injectors, get them cleaned and installed.
- To fix code 51 is a simple adjustment in most cases:
http://www.cygnusx1.net/supra/Library/TSRM/MK3/manual.aspx?S=FI&P=101
Search for more info...or, just read this:
http://www.supramania.com/forums/showthread.php?t=46793
- Get the car running on stock components (no MAFT yet) and broken in.
Search for proper engine break-in...use straight 30W oil
- If you don't have a wideband O2, highly suggest you get one
- Add the MAFT and switch over to what you want to do one thing at a time...i.e boost control working right, then speed density.
Get a basic tune on the 440's
- Add bigger injectors...550's should be plenty big enough

I do not have a MAFT-Pro, so not a lot of help from me. There is quite a bit of info in the Piggyback section though.

yes i want to run speed density on the maft pro. No i dont want to use the BC on the maft pro. i will read how to fix 51 as soon as im done with this. The big problem i have is i dont have the factory pigtails for the 440's. I am using strait 30w ND oil for break in. thank you for you help man. I will keep you up dated.

 

[jdub]

PM tubbie...he has all kinds of stuff (harness connectors) like that.

 

[88supraFAST1]

cool man thanks

 

[pimptrizkit]

have you adjusted the tps yet.


remember when you said code 51, and mentioned a/c switch, and i mentioned a/c switch or tps. and i asked if you had your foot on the gas while you were checking your codes.


do me another favor and look up your tps vaule in the maft pro, and let us know what the voltage is.

iirc it should be some where between .3/.4 volt and that will keep it from throwing the code.


have you guy's installed that new time switch i found?

 

[88supraFAST1]

have you adjusted the tps yet.


remember when you said code 51, and mentioned a/c switch, and i mentioned a/c switch or tps. and i asked if you had your foot on the gas while you were checking your codes.


do me another favor and look up your tps vaule in the maft pro, and let us know what the voltage is.

iirc it should be some where between .3/.4 volt and that will keep it from throwing the code.


have you guy's installed that new time switch i found?

Ya i installed the time switch, i will have to get back to you on the value i have bigger things to worry about right now. i just figured out that i most likely have stuck valve on the intake side on #5. Compression on it went from 60 to 0 in about 2 sec and wouldn't go any higher then 60 wet tested reads the same. checked the clearances on the cam and number 5 on the intake is way out of spec so guess what got to get new shims. lol :cry:

 

[88supraFAST1]

so when i was at lunch Jeremy was taking off the intake cam and one of the dowels that hold the cam caps fell out and he doesn't know where it went so he is thinking that it went in the oil pan though one of the oil return or the oil feeds to the head. now he wants to take off the oil pan and make sure that it's not in there.:nono:

 

[jdub]

I would look behind the timing cover behind the crank 1st.

 

[88supraFAST1]

ya i will do but it came off of the number 5 cam cap lol so thats a long shot for a dowel to go but you never know with cars.

 

[jdub]

I misunderstood...I thought you were talking about a cam gear dowel. My bad.

 

[88supraFAST1]

Its all good. I looked here to see if i could fine a good picture of the oiling system to see where the holes go in the head but there isn't shiznet for a good picture.

 

[jdub]

On the intake side...drain to the pan:
- Between #1 & #2 cam caps
- Between #5 & #6 cam caps
There is also a vent tube for the space between the front timing cover, forward of the #1 cap

On the exhaust side...drain to the pan:
- Aft of the #6 cam cap

I looked at the head/block I have disassembled in the garage...you might be able to get a magnetic pick-up (telescoping type) and run it down the hole you suspect the dowel fell. The hole looks big enough and is a straight shot to the block through the head, then it angles slightly forward along the side of the block and opens up just forward of the #5 main bearing saddle. Who knows, you might get lucky