Really weird Starting Problem

[ForcedTorque]

For a little while now, I have been dealing with a really weird starting issue. For th most part, the car does fine. I have had an Optima Red Top battery in it that was almost new (2-3 months of use). It will start fine for 2-3 days, and all of the sudden decide that it does not want to start. I have both an AFC-NEO and a HKS Turbo Timer that both show voltage. The NEO is actually about a full volt lower than the turbo timer and using a multimeter, but it is what I have used most for measuring. I just realized that the TT has a votage reading. So, I will use the lower NEO readings, and () the estimaed readings, as it theoretically could be correct.

Again, it may go 2-3 days at 13.9 (14.8), and let's say I leave work for lunch with no problems. I drive 5 miles to a K-Mart pharmacy, and park to drop off or pick up a perscription. After that 3-5 minutes stop, I come out, and the car won't start. When it does this, the NEO usually shows 11.5-11.7. Both times that happened, I was able to push it downhill to kick start it. At times where I have had the car at home, the multimeter will show the battery at 12.3-12.6, but no start. I then put jumper cables on it, and the car will start right away with no wait, and weirdly no drag what so ever.

I honestly thought I may have a bad cell in the Optima, so I bought a new battery just Friday. Today, it has done it again, with the new battery. I have a very good wiring harness, that I bought from a guy who bought it new and used it a year. So, I don't suspect my wiring harness. I pulled my starter and took it to be rebuilt, only to be told that it was fine by the guy I was offering money to. He did replace the connection at the solenoid. These problems did start not too long after this was done. My old connection had fallen off, and it would give that problem, but when I moved it around a bit. Should I still suspect a problem here?

I really don't have an idea what could drain the battery with the ignition in the off position in a 3-5 minute time period. And why would it not try at all to crank, but not drag any just as jumper cables are connected?

 

[supraman7mgte]

mine does the same thing after a cold start up.
nothing i could do would convince it to start.
BUT let it run and get warm is a different story. It had no prob after that.
I have an Optima red and yellow

 

[ForcedTorque]

With the problems I see about Optimas, I was hoping that was my problem. But, a new battery has not helped it.

 

[ForcedTorque]

Any other help? Please?

 

[Piratetip]

Check for a parasitic loss on the battery when the car is off.
Also load test your alternator to see if it even works.

 

[ForcedTorque]

I'm electrically challenged! How would I start to look for a parasitic loss????

 

[buckshotglass]

Pull the ground from the battery and put a meter in between. It will show you how much drain you have if there is one.

 

[ZoomZoomZoom]

Any other help? Please?

A lot of the local auto parts stores (advanced/auto zone) will do an alternator test for free.

Check with Setheroo to see what his car is doing. He was/is having the same problem. He hasn't posted his solution yet over on GE-Tech Discussion. When your car fails to crank, do ALL the lights go out (dash and dome light) as if the battery is being sucked dry?

Tomorrow I will find out if a faulty factory alarm was the culprit with my car's starting issues/drained battery. Due to the weather and a leaky water pump it hasn't been out since I pulled the alarm.

 

[SideWinderGX]

It's not a problem with your battery.

The starter wire is corroded/old/crappy and under certain conditions where if you run it for a short, or super long, period of time, it won't start the car back up for approximately 40 minutes. There's a post over on SF here: http://www.supraforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=124724 about setting up a relay in the starter system which fixes the problem. Either set up the starter relay or you're gonna have to re-run the starter wires in the harness =\

 

[buckshotglass]

It's not a problem with your battery.

I agree.

 

[Setheroo]

I ended up running a new wire to the starter just to see if my problem would go away - and truth be told - it hasn't happened since then - but then again - it hadn't done it to me for about three days before I changed that wire either, so I can't say for sure.

 

[ForcedTorque]

I had a plan this morning. As I have been doing, I went out and cranked the car before the wife left for work to let it warm and charge. At that time, I put the optima on the charger as a back up. The battery in the car was charging at a rate of 13.9 on the low reading NEO when the car turned off after about 10 minutes. 30 minutes later when I got ready to leave, it would not start again. With the multimeter, the battery read 12.3. I swapped in the Optima at 12.95, and the car started right up. BUT, as I made the swap, the connector came off of the wire that runs from the positive post to whatever it is it runs to. I wonder if this was my drain, as it prepared to fall off.

 

[ZoomZoomZoom]

It's not a problem with your battery.

The starter wire is corroded/old/crappy and under certain conditions where if you run it for a short, or super long, period of time, it won't start the car back up for approximately 40 minutes. There's a post over on SF here: http://www.supraforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=124724 about setting up a relay in the starter system which fixes the problem. Either set up the starter relay or you're gonna have to re-run the starter wires in the harness =\

I agree.

I would not be so quick to agree. I've had four supras in the past 5 years and never had to resort to the by-pass trick. Many other supra owners get brand new harnesses and still have to do the by-pass trick.

Found out the issue with my car was multiple: crabby factory alarm followed by the owner failing to properly tighten down the ground to the battery. Luckily, the owner fixes more stuff than she breaks..

Pull the alarm if you haven't already. Its easy and it takes one more variable out of the picture.

 

[arz]

Mine had almost identical problems, and the starter solenoid relay fixed the problem. I also have the Factory alarm still working, so that wasn't my problem.

I never checked the voltage to the battery as I knew it was good. It would either turn the motor over or go CLICK each time I turned the key. Sometimes moving the car forward or back just a few inches would allow the car to start. I attributed this to the fact that some circuits in the starter winding are better than others. Eventually this stopped working, I took the starter apart and the contacts for the solenoid looked almost new, pitted but new.

I Did the starter relay mod and have never had a problem since.

If this isn't it, my apologies as I didn't see an accurate description of HOW it wouldn't start. I didn't pay attention to the voltage drain but a loose/corroded battery connection would explain that.

It wasn't to much work to do the Starter relay and you can use the BIG battery cable lead to get the high voltage circuit right there on the starter. Just make sure to run a fuse and/or tie/attach/fasten your relay properly so the wires don't chafe or touch anything else.

 

[ForcedTorque]

^Does pulling the alarm module disable the alarm system, while causing no other problems?


I just returned from O'Reilley's. They tested my Optima battery that I just put back into the car this morning, my alternator, and also tested that the starter only used 12 volts to start the car. The Alternator was charging at 14.1 volts, and the battery was holding over 13 with the car not running. That just leaves me, an electrical idiot, with an electrical draw to chase down. It also leaves me with two good batteries.

I cranked the car successfully several times over the lunch break. One thing that I haven't mentioned yet, is when it does start, there is always a 1-2 second delay after I turn the key before it gets to cranking. This is a new thing that came along with the problems, and I guess could be a clue. Would that point me to the ignition switch?

 

[MadNad]

I had similar issues. My problem ended up being the a loose plug on the starter. I ran a wire from my batter to the starter plug that comes form the key and she started right up. Tried wiggling connections when it wouldn't start?

 

[buckshotglass]

ZZZ- I was agreeing with just the part I posted, it's probably not the battery.

 

[ZoomZoomZoom]

Mine had almost identical problems, and the starter solenoid relay fixed the problem. I also have the Factory alarm still working, so that wasn't my problem.

I never checked the voltage to the battery as I knew it was good. It would either turn the motor over or go CLICK each time I turned the key.
...

You by-pass the factory alarm by doing the starter solenoid mod. Unless you pull the alarm itself, you will never know if it was the true culprit. Try pulling the alarm, putting a jumper wire in its place, and see if you still need the starter solenoid mod. With a jumper wire you can put the alarm back in without any damage to the wiring. I went through a bunch of rebuilt starters last year and finally got a brand new OEM starter. That may also make a difference.

 

[Nick M]

30 minutes at idle doesn't give you a good recharge.

 

[ZoomZoomZoom]

^Does pulling the alarm module disable the alarm system, while causing no other problems?

Pulling the alarm module does not cause any other problems as long as you jumper or solder the wire that runs to the starter. There's a write-up on it in tech. I chose the jumper solution so I didn't have to cut on the harness.

Update on my car: since removing the alarm module and cranking down the ground cable on the battery, car has started over a dozen times perfectly.