Quick questions about the headlights.

[Doward]

Going over the TEWD, and let me test my understanding here.

The headlights *always* have power via the underhood fuses (red and red/white wires), and the stock wiring simply redirects the ground between the terminals on the other end of the filaments - the red/black and red/blue wires.

Am I right?

 

[Doward]

Of course I'm right. Which means my entire rewire is wrong.

Here, I whipped a quick diagram of what the proper rewire schematic should look like. Yes, I know it looks like shit. I'll clean it up when I get time. But this should be handy knowledge for someone else, so here you guys/gals go!

(took link down due to bad schematic - will fix and upload again when I have the chance)

Also, if you are having a problem of 'I shut my lights off, but they stay on' then this is most likely your electrical 'feedback (not really feedback, but whatever) that is keeping your lights on.

I'll confirm/deny this all as soon as I get through re-wiring the headlights. Again.

 

[jetjock]

Well, they don't *always* have power. The integration relay controls the power through the headlight relay via the combination switch. For some reason I'm unable to view your schematic.

 

[Doward]

Ah, yes, I see. The combo switch engages the relay, which supplies the power.

I wonder if it's possible my relay isn't dis-engaging... well, it wouldn't matter if my relay is disengaging, as when I shut the lights off @ the combo switch, the stock headlight relay should shut down, killing power to the lights.

Weird... that's ok, I made a pretty bad mistake (dual 87 terminal relays - one relay should go to BOTH low beams, the other to BOTH high beams)

Lights come on, work great.... but they are still staying on. Gonna have to investigate more.

The retractors are doing precisely nill, so I think I'm going to start with the relay for those...

 

[jetjock]

Yes, the combo switch controls the integration relay which in turn controls the headlight relay. Without it there could be no headlight auto-off feature. If you're doing a rewire to improve lighting performance and want to keep auto-off you'll need to use that output to drive a new relay while using two more relays to pilot the headlights via the combo switch.

 

[Doward]

Currently, I'm using the headlight pigtails as the triggers for the two relays.

Relay #1
85 - 12v from headlight pigtail
30 - ground to battery
87/87 - low beam terminals of the headlights (1 87 per headlight)
86 - ground of BOTH low beams from BOTH headlight pigtail (t'd together)

Relay #2
85 - 12v from headlight pigtail
30 - ground to battery
87/87 - high beam terminals of the headlights (1 87 per headlight)
86 - ground of BOTH high beams from BOTH headlight pigtails (t'd together)

Since I added these in at the headlights (as far as the system is concerned) I thought I would keep stock functionality.

Obviously, I'm wrong somewhere

 

[jetjock]

http://tinyurl.com/5hjxm

Are those 5 pin relays with a normally closed 87A terminal or are they the standard 4 pin with just an 87?

Depending on what you mean by "headlight pigtail" that looks OK but if you have 5 pin relays don't use 87A. You don't need it. There is also little point to a rewire unless you replace both the ground *and* power paths. That'll remove full load from the combo switch too. And again, if you want to keep auto-off you'll either need to install a third relay or rewire the stock one into the new power path and drive it off the integration relay's stock output.

Fuses on the new power paths too. You can downsize the stock HL fuses if you like but it's not necessary.

Confused? PM me and we'll get technical

 

[IJ.]

When I installed my 55w HID's I ended up doing exactly that JJ
(The startup load of the ballasts was high enough that it wasn't happening with just power relays so I added Ground path relays as well)

 

[Doward]

http://tinyurl.com/5hjxm

Are those 5 pin relays with a normally closed 87A terminal or are they the standard 4 pin with just an 87?

Depending on what you mean by "headlight pigtail" that looks OK but if you have 5 pin relays don't use 87A. You don't need it. There is also little point to a rewire unless you replace both the ground *and* power paths. That'll remove full load from the combo switch too. And again, if you want to keep auto-off you'll either need to install a third relay or rewire the stock one into the new power path and drive it off the integration relay's stock output.

Fuses on the new power paths too. You can downsize the stock HL fuses if you like but it's not necessary.

Confused? PM me and we'll get technical

I have twin 30 amps on 2 separate circuits, one for each headlight.

Nope, these aren't the 87/87a relays (where the switch flips between the two) these are dual 87 relays (they close both 87s at the same time)

Here's the current clusterfuck - don't worry, I'll clean everything up nice and neat once I've got it all working correctly

Here's the current wiring schematic -

 

[3p141592654]

I believe this may not work as expected. If you look at the stock wiring, you will notice that the high-beam gauge indicator light is driven through the low beam filament circuit.

So, if you have high beams on, you will have a 3.4W indicator bulb to ground on your 86 terminal of the low beam relay. That may be enough current to trigger the low beam relay on.

 

[Doward]

Currently, I can switch lows and highs, no problem. Hi beam indicator switches on fine. I may have gotten the red/blue red/black mixed up (I just made that schematic from memory, lol)

Problem is, switching the combo switch to 'off' and removing the key does not power down the lights. Light retractors are also not working currently.

If it makes a difference, I've replaced all the bulbs in the dash with LEDs.

 

[jetjock]

Hmmm. By any chance are you Polish?

Assuming you're using H4 lamps it looks OK to me even though you're using more wires than I would have. You should have been able to get away with only one brown and blue for relay control. Are you removing sealed beams to install H4s? If so do the stock sealed beams have the same pinout? I forget but something about that is nagging at me. Anyway, the problem must be there because from a quick look the rest seems OK.

Sorry, kind of rushed at the moment. The bus can't leave with out me so I gotta run. I'll be back to help out tomorrow if one or more of our other guys (where's 3p, CRE, ect when you need them?) doesn't chime in.

Meanwhile digest this. it might help:

http://tinyurl.com/2cktku

Colors on the stock connector pigtails would also be helpful....

edit: 3p to the rescue

 

[3p141592654]

Sounds good, an LED would only draw 10-20 mA, not enough to actuate the relay.

If the lights are on, then sounds like the headlight relay is always energized. Pull the headlight relay and see if they turn off.

If they do, then you will have to focus on the integration relay #2. Check to see that the Violet-White wire going to the combo switch is grounded with the headlights on, and open-circuit with the headlights off.

 

[Doward]

10-4. Don't know why I didn't catch that as an obvious troubleshooting point... especially considering I mentioned it earlier in the thread

JJ, not Polish... just dyslexic. I get lost in my head at times! Yes, I removed the stock sealed beams, re-wired to an H4. Pinout is the same from all my research (6054 vs H4)

 

[Doward]

Headlights go out when I pull the relay.

Turned the lights on and quickly turned them back off - they went off. Back on, back off. Back on, stayed on.

I think I'm looking at a problem in the combo switch.

I'll check that ground, thanks 3p!

 

[Poodles]

Integration relay

mine did the same thing stock...

 

[3p141592654]

There is a small chance it is the headlight relay sticking. Not very likely but easily checked with a voltmeter.

 

[Doward]

I'll look into it tomorrow and come back, in case anyone else has problems!

 

[Doward]

Just double checked as well - the wiring colors of my circuit from the headlight pigtail exactly match the wiring of my stock pigtail

 

[Doward]

Headlight relay is good. Going to start checking the integration relay and harness, then from there to the combo switch.