Questions on a standalone ECU
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450 dollars worth better economy and and idle quality? I'm only planning on 700cc injectors, and sequential injection and individual ignition drivers are really the only benefit as far as I'm reallyconcerned as I don't need the extra outputs and I feel the stinger 4 has large enough maps for my goals.
I'm not trying to sound cheap just want advice from those who know I buy the what I need the first time.
I'm not trying to sound cheap just want advice from those who know I buy the what I need the first time.
Depends on how much you value driveability, if you want it to idle drive like stock then yes Seq is the way to go.
It's not so much the injector's size that hurts it's their quality and pattern at low duty cycles, if you batch fire you're hosing fuel into a closed port 50% of the time so you need to pull duty cycle even more to allow for this.
End result is fluffy throttle response and not as good idle/economy, I was able to get 1000cc's running like a dream even using 280 cams.
It's not so much the injector's size that hurts it's their quality and pattern at low duty cycles, if you batch fire you're hosing fuel into a closed port 50% of the time so you need to pull duty cycle even more to allow for this.
End result is fluffy throttle response and not as good idle/economy, I was able to get 1000cc's running like a dream even using 280 cams.
I see, Im going for the 700cc densos from driftmotion, if that makes a difference.
Not trying to be stubborn just making sure i buy will give me desired results.
For example the Motec m400 has same drivers as the stinger 4, triple the cost, and so many things i will not use but am paying for.
The reason i like the stinger, whether its the 2422 or the 8860 is because it has the things i need/want and nothing else so Im not paying for things i wont use.
When i call to order, maybe today or sometime this week im going to discuss it with Aaron further.
Thanks guys.
Not trying to be stubborn just making sure i buy will give me desired results.
For example the Motec m400 has same drivers as the stinger 4, triple the cost, and so many things i will not use but am paying for.
The reason i like the stinger, whether its the 2422 or the 8860 is because it has the things i need/want and nothing else so Im not paying for things i wont use.
When i call to order, maybe today or sometime this week im going to discuss it with Aaron further.
Thanks guys.
nosechunks;1373580 said:
same drivers? You perhaps mean same MOSFET but the MOSFET is not what dictates Inj control. The programming and the CPU does and particularly the sub 1ms control. I know of MoTec in the .75ms range with not one hiccup.
Now you speak of money is no objec but yet talk about 7-900 hp and you are looking at 700cc/min inj? Seriously?
You have a tall hill to climb. So far it seems like a far fetched dream. If cost was no object, you pay until that number is achieved or how I call it, open checkbook spending.
Now spending more than you need. Wrong MoTeC. Need the m600 minimum for sequential injection/ignition. All of them come with advanced features turned on in North America but as always, verify with the specific dealer. No need to add any other options like lambda, logging, remote telemtry, dbw, multi spark/injection etc.
Think you have me confused with the OP I'm only shooting for ~500 and I ment same number of drivers for comparison sake. I'm going stinger and I think as per IJ I should just go for the 6860.
I wasn't putting motec down at all and if you need that percise injector controll it's worth the coin but I feel I'm just beyond the reach of piggy backs so such an advanced EMS would not be something practical for my goals/budget.
I wasn't putting motec down at all and if you need that percise injector controll it's worth the coin but I feel I'm just beyond the reach of piggy backs so such an advanced EMS would not be something practical for my goals/budget.
figgie;1374301 said:
I am starting with 700cc injectors and seeing where that puts me, and then working up from there. I am sure I will need bigger injectors and a lot of things in all by the time I get to my actual power goals, but this is just a start in the direction I am aiming for. Right now I have a set of injectors here that I picked up from a buddy who scrapped his project. I am not worried about the overall cost, I just dont want a bunch of crap I dont need. Im not much into the actual tuning of the car as of yet, so that was the purpose of finding out what I could. I will probably use an AEM EMS, but I figured if this would do the same and save a bit of coin, then ok. If it would not, im not to worried about it.
rawmk3;1374450 said:
come again? You are not making sense and contradicting yourself. A start at 700cc/min instead of starting with 1000cc/min injectors? You speak of not wanting "crap" you don't need but right off the bat, put the injectors in the double dip category along with god knows what else just to "see"?
I can see where this project is heading before you even start it.
nosechunks;1374315 said:
Nosechunk, sorry about that. You are right i got you and the op confused on the goals. Though the number of drivers does not dictate how low can they go. Still a function of the Cpu, developers that coded the CPU and associated components (type of mosfets, their response, their specs etc, and not just mosfets! Everything in the system. )
Using the stinger with 1000's was not a problem as the stinger has very good resolution in the map's. It was not a problem to batch fire the injectors and still get the af's to 14.9 or so during idle or cruise. This is with the precision turbo delphi injectors.
figgie;1374545 said:
No having things I dont need as in a ton of extra sensors and electronic crap I dont need. I am starting with 700cc injectors because I was given a set. Other than that I do not plan to skimp on anything. You can make your judgement on me as to how my build is going to turn out, but all I asked about was the stinger EMS. I didnt ask for anyones opinion of how I am doing my build, nor did I ask for anyones input as to how to actually do my build. It is my build, and if it fails then so be it. If it goes well, then what? Would everyone say good job, nice build, sorry for saying you know nothing? Prolly not. I am not building a daily driver in the very least. And I am starting with low boost, 700cc injectors, and mild cams. FFIM, Q45 90mm TB, and so on. I dont plan on having un-needed things for the car to function. Everything is getting redone, and I am not asking for anyones permission to do my build, I was asking about a product. So please if you intend to respond to something I post, keep it on the topic of my initial post. Will the stinger EMS work to produce the HP I am aiming for? So far people are saying the mapping will work to handle what I want, but I am now thinking about going my own route with it all and posting it up after. So I can see everyone tell me how it wont work as I already know it will. All I want is something to control my fuel delivery and ignition system. Not something to show me on some digital read out in real time what is going on.
if you dont want to have your "build" picked apart or receive opinions on it dont post about it. Other wise stop getting so butt hurt when YOU provide detail about your setup and some one says they think it will work or knows that mathematically it wont...
Your post have a history of being "over stuffed" with your goals and what your using. None of which is really needed to know if the stinger will support XXXwhp.
Your post have a history of being "over stuffed" with your goals and what your using. None of which is really needed to know if the stinger will support XXXwhp.
grimreaper;1378224 said:
pWnT!!
yeah.. i'm not tryin to be a douche OP, but the guys on here really, really REALLY know what they are talking about....
for the most part. lol, i kid, i kid.
in all honesty and seriousness, i would trust any vet member of this site with my supra's any day, anytime, any where. the 7m only came in two cars here in america, and the gte came in only one, and as you can amass, it is the 3rd gen supra. so your average joe would have no effing idea what he is looking at, and in reality most pro shops dont even know what to do with these things, trust me, been there, done that, i did NOT pass go, and i DID get a FUc't motor.
so, if you want advice, and you ask for it, dont get pissy when it is giving freely.
and that's all i really have to say about that.
^_^
rawmk3;1378178 said:
Hey,
I enjoy being proven wrong, the very little times it happens.
Ultimate power can be done by any EMS to include the Megasquirt. Hell that can be done on a carb setup also. The real question is driveability. That is what REALLY sets EMS aparts along with reliability. The other question is WHO will tune your car? If you think you will do your own tuning to achieve those numbers. By all means, go for it! I will ship out a bucket and shovel along with a camera so you can take pictures of the aftermath.
figgie;1378868 said:
No I have no plan to actually tune my car myself. I also am not 100% sure who will be doing the tuning. I am not looking for a street driven vehicle for the most part. It may see the street once in a great while, but not something to be daily driven. It will never see anything other than nice weather and no rain.
I put some of the things I plan to use in here so people can tell me if the stinger would control it. But I have decided I will probably go another route other than the stinger, so I will figure it out myself now.
I am tired of hearing people talk about the problems getting a 900hp car to hook on the street when I ask about an EMS. Its 900hp!!! It will have a hard enough time hooking on the track. Others telling me how much its going to cost to do a build like this? I mean seriously? Im not 16, this isnt my first car, and I am well aware of how much it is going to cost me. I have already dropped over seven grand in parts alone for this engine. I am not cutting costs in any place they could not afford to be cut. I am not putting in crap components into my engine. I am however interested in shaving costs where it is possible. And there are tons of EMS's out there and I dont think I should need something super expensive just for a name. Its about the functionality of the parts, not the name with them.
After my car is done, I will have plenty to post. Then everyone can pick it apart. I could care less what people think about me, but it seems people add opinions when I ask something technical. I ask for something technical, will it work or not. IJ said it would but have "light switch power". I am looking for a car that either makes power or doesnt. Nothing in between. The question was answered so there is no need to continue some argument that is pointless.
And grim I know mathematically I am not going to get 900hp out of 700cc injectors. All those are are freebie parts I have. I want to see what I can get from those, then upgrade the injectors. But because I want to see where I stand in relation to a 700-900hp goal with my car with injectors I have already, people feel a need to run their mouths. I know what I am doing as far as my build. All I am still a bit lost on is my EMS. Will my injectors get upped, more than likely. Will I test the car with 700cc injectors and see what kind of power and ET's I can put down, you bet your ass.
This is a progressive build. Open ended spending I believe it was said.
If your car is an 87-88 I would just buy the PNP AEM EMS it can be had for about 1250. Then I would do the rewire for sequential injection. Get a JZ ignitor, wire that in along with an HKS split fire DLI, turn off multiplexing.
What type of fuel you use really will determine what size injector you want. Your 700cc injectors should be good for around 700hp depending upon what fuel pump and pressure you are running.
The supra world is really different from the dsm world. I have yet to see anyone boosting over 40psi on their 7ms.
What type of fuel you use really will determine what size injector you want. Your 700cc injectors should be good for around 700hp depending upon what fuel pump and pressure you are running.
The supra world is really different from the dsm world. I have yet to see anyone boosting over 40psi on their 7ms.
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