Question about Rear control arm issue.

[leftynridge]

Ok so I'm in the process of restoring my 88 turbo and I am starting to reassemble the rear subframe. I recently purchased rear control arms, traction arms, and tow arms from Wes at Beech Performance. The issue that I'm having is that the lower control arm has a wiggle to it. I can grab it with my hand and it will wiggle in a side to side motion where the control arm connects to the knuckle when I grab it with my hand like this shown here.

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This is how the movement would look when connected to the subframe from the other end.

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I have come to the conclusion that it could be one of two things either the bushing itself is bad on the knuckle or the design of the control arm allows to much movement. What I mean is the stock traction arm has a U shaped design with a bushing in the middle where it connects to the subframe which will allow no side to side movement at all even if the bushing is bad. The BP control arm has a heim joint and even tighten to OEM specs it will still move side to side because of the flexibility of the rubber bushing.

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Now the control arm knuckle bushing has a metal sleeve in it and the Traction arm knuckle bushing is just solid rubber and has no side to side movement at all. Both Wes's control arm and traction arm have the same design but the traction arm is just a hair longer. Now I have talked to Wes and we thought it could be the bushing but thinking about it more made me curious to see what the experts thought. Is it normal for the control arm knuckle bushing to to have play in it like that? I would hate to buy new bushings only to end up with the same result. Plus I just hate the idea of it moving like that when the control arm should move up in down not side to side.

 

[IJ.]

The Hub end is a Spherical bushing, I'm not understanding why there's a Heim at the opposite end....

 

[leftynridge]

So are you saying that having the ability to move side to side like that is not a good thing. What would you suggest?

Why would the traction arm not move like that and the control does and there the same design. Heim on one end and U shape joint on the other end?

 

[leftynridge]

I'm really just trying to figure out what needs to be fixed here. The bushing or the control arm.

 

[hvyman]

Its got a bushing. Supposed to move.

 

[sous]

talk to wess i just order the same but still dont have

 

[hvyman]

Spherical bushings are like heim joints but a stock rubber bushing type that has greese in them.

 

[leftynridge]

Its got a bushing. Supposed to move.

I understand that its a bushing and its going to move but if you look at the design of the stock control arm with how its wedged in the subframe with a bushing and with a U shaped end, once its tightened it will not move like that. I think that the problem is that you have a heim joint on one end (which can move around) and a bushing on the other (which can also move around). This is why I believe that there is play. I put the stock arm back on and there was no side to side play like I showed in the pictures. Just trying to figure out what to do here.

---------- Post added at 08:33 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:30 PM ----------

talk to wess i just order the same but still dont have

I have talked to Wes on the phone and we came to the conclusion that its the bushing but the fact that both ends have the ability to move side to side like that and with the stock arm it doesn't move, leads me to believe that its the heim joint. But then again I could be wrong. I have seen several items that Wes has made and he does great work.

 

[SWD Fredester 3]

I'll go by the shop on Monday and check the ones I have installed. I don't recall any real movement in the U shaped portion. I do have new ES poly bushings installed throughout.
I know I have a set of new OEM bushings here, let me know if you want them.

 

[IJ.]

You want a fixed bushing at one end and a Spherical at the Hub end to allow for rotational movement as well as Up/Down, I'm guessing it's an oversight on Wes's part as what you now have is a Link and NOT a control arm...

 

[leftynridge]

You have the knuckle bushing for the control arm if so how much? Is it the 42210 part number.
http://www.cygnusx1.net/Supra/Library/EPC/291410/catalog.aspx?F=4804&P=1

---------- Post added at 08:59 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:50 PM ----------

You want a fixed bushing at one end and a Spherical at the Hub end to allow for rotational movement as well as Up/Down, I'm guessing it's an oversight on Wes's part as what you now have is a Link and NOT a control arm...

The weird thing is the traction arm is the same design with a similar spherical bushing on the knuckle and it doesn't move at all. Do you think its cause the control arm knuckle bushing has the metal sleeve in it which allows a little more rotation and the traction arm knuckle bushing does not or do you think its that the control arm knuckle bushing is just that worn that it has that kind of play.

 

[IJ.]

Control Arm doesn't have a Spherical bush it's a normal Steel in rubber sleeve bushing, they look the same but aren't.

 

[leftynridge]

Got you. So what do think is going to be the best fix for this issue. Talk to Wes about redesigning the heim joint end or buy new bushings for the knuckle?

 

[IJ.]

Talk to Wes, you need the Spherical at the Hub end as that's where the rotation occurs, a bush there will cause the Tube to fail in time.

 

[leftynridge]

Just to clarify you need a spherical bushing here. I may be confused. Just want make sure I know what I'm talking about when I talk to him about this.

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Also would this same idea apply to the traction arm or just the control arm.

 

[SWD Fredester 3]

You have the knuckle bushing for the control arm if so how much? Is it the 42210 part number.
http://www.cygnusx1.net/Supra/Library/EPC/291410/catalog.aspx?F=4804&P=1

No I have the wrong ones, #48725-14040, thought they were for the control arm @ the hub .


---------- Post added at 08:59 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:50 PM ----------



The weird thing is the traction arm is the same design with a similar spherical bushing on the knuckle and it doesn't move at all. Do you think its cause the control arm knuckle bushing has the metal sleeve in it which allows a little more rotation and the traction arm knuckle bushing does not or do you think its that the control arm knuckle bushing is just that worn that it has that kind of play.

Talk to Wes, you need the Spherical at the Hub end as that's where the rotation occurs, a bush there will cause the Tube to fail in time.

So I wonder if the Energy Suspension bushings for there are spherical? Almost must be, I had them installed before I put on the Beech arms.

 

[leftynridge]

Spherical bushings are like heim joints but a stock rubber bushing type that has greese in them.

I agree they are alike in the since that they both allow up in down movement which you want in the control arm. However, the heim joint also allows left to right movement because the joint its self is a sphere which you don't want it to do.

 

[IJ.]

Look at a stock Arm, that's how it should be.

Bushing one end Heim/Spherical bearing the other......

Having said that I personally think Heim joints are garbage on a road car but that's just me.

 

[leftynridge]

So I wonder if the Energy Suspension bushings for there are spherical? Almost must be, I had them installed before I put on the Beech arms.

Yeah I have ES bushings for the rear and they will work for the stock control arm but because of the heim joint design vs. the oem spherical design they will not fit Wes's control arms.



---------- Post added at 09:46 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:45 PM ----------

Look at a stock Arm, that's how it should be.

Bushing one end Heim/Spherical bearing the other......

Having said that I personally think Heim joints are garbage on a road car but that's just me.

Is there anything wrong with going with the oem control arm. Are they weak in design. it seems that people mainly change the traction arms. I have poly bushing for it just can't use them with Wes's heim joints.

 

[Poodles]

Spherical bushings are like heim joints but a stock rubber bushing type that has greese in them.

It's like a heim joint, but sealed with grease and rubber like a ball joint. Heim joints are usually open meaning they get dirt in them and wear out quickly (hence why they suck for a road car).