Q45 TB issues

[MA70Snowman]

Finally got my RON R. FFIM fitted, and the Q45 All in place. Wired the Q45 CPS to the existing harness using the directions from here.

http://www.celicasupra.com/forums/s...5-Throttle-Body-to-7M-TPS-Wiring-Instructions

Now went to start the car and get a tune.. my TPS sensor is reading .89-.1 with a 4.5 with foot off pedal. I don't remember the exact stock range, but i'm pretty sure it was in the range of .0-3.8ish with V increasing with pedal. Mines doing the exact opposit, and not even providng good numbers..

Any thoughts/ideas? maybe crossed some wired?

 

[MA70Snowman]

bump for any ideas

 

[adampecush]

A few questions.

1. Are you using an ISC?
2. If so, have you removed the thermostat/linkage from the TB?
3. If not, are you running coolant to the TB?
4. Have you tried adjusting the TPS? (Will depend on the answers to the above).

The thermostat/linkage opens the throttle plate at low coolant temperatures to permit a higher idle. If this is still installed without coolant, your throttle plate will always be open a little bit, causing your TPS to read above a true closed value.

 

[MA70Snowman]

Hey thanks for throwing some stuff out there.;

1. Are you using an ISC?

yes

2. If so, have you removed the thermostat/linkage from the TB?

Have stripped everything off of the TB

3. If not, are you running coolant to the TB?

N/A, and no i'm not running coolant to the TB

4. Have you tried adjusting the TPS? (Will depend on the answers to the above).

Have tried adjusting the TPS, my range of values is .038 - .89

 

[SWD Fredester 3]

Just as a side note, as I remember from doing some reading on here there were some members that were having problems with using a Q45. It's a very big TB and after talking to the man doing my build I opted to go with a 80MM TB w/ a Q45 foot print for my Ron R. FFIM.

-Fred

 

[MA70Snowman]

Just as a side note, as I remember from doing some reading on here there were some members that were having problems with using a Q45. It's a very big TB and after talking to the man doing my build I opted to go with a 80MM TB w/ a Q45 foot print for my Ron R. FFIM.

-Fred

when you say "problems".. is that in referance to the TB itself, or the TPS?
At the moment my issues are not with the TB itself, merely the Q45 TPS that was rewired.

 

[SWD Fredester 3]

when you say "problems".. is that in referance to the TB itself, or the TPS?
At the moment my issues are not with the TB itself, merely the Q45 TPS that was rewired.

As I recall the problem was with the drivability with the Q45. As far as the wiring I don't know, but have you considered using the Beech Q45 adaptor for the stock TPS on the Q45?

 

[MA70Snowman]

As I recall the problem was with the drivability with the Q45. As far as the wiring I don't know, but have you considered using the Beech Q45 adaptor for the stock TPS on the Q45?

this guy said it good and I echo it 100%
"Beech Performance adapter from what Ive been told requires you to cut off the piece that comes out of the middle of the Q45 TPS hole. I seen that and Im like no thanks, I will just use the Q45 one and call it a day. "

Honestly this is the first time i've ever heard of issues with the Q45 TB. I'll try and do a more thorough search of the forums, but I really can't recall anything. and I guess once I get this wiring issue figured out..I'll see first hand.

 

[SWD Fredester 3]

this guy said it good and I echo it 100%
"Beech Performance adapter from what Ive been told requires you to cut off the piece that comes out of the middle of the Q45 TPS hole. I seen that and Im like no thanks, I will just use the Q45 one and call it a day. "

Honestly this is the first time i've ever heard of issues with the Q45 TB. I'll try and do a more thorough search of the forums, but I really can't recall anything. and I guess once I get this wiring issue figured out..I'll see first hand.

I believe that the Beech Q45 TB TPS adaptor was designed so that you could use the stock 7M GTE TB TPS with the Q45 TB without having to do any rewiring.

Good luck with your wiring, I trust that you can get it straightened out and working well.

As far as issues with the Q45, I honestly can't remember where I read about the problems--it's been a few years; but it was enough info to sway me not to go with a new Q45-which I had on order-and go with an 80MM TB.

At this point it's all really just a moot point, I just hope you get your car up and running and that everything works out great for you on your build.

-Fred

 

[MA70Snowman]

At this point it's all really just a moot point, I just hope you get your car up and running and that everything works out great for you on your build.

-Fred

lol thanks, that makes two of us.

won't be able to chase wiring till tomorrow, in the mean time can anyone give me the normal volt range for the Stock TPS? this way I have something to compare and contrast? and could you iterate if its 0-x or x-0 going from no throttle to full throttle. Thanks

 

[adampecush]

http://www.cygnusx1.net/Supra/Library/TSRM/MK3/manual.aspx?S=FI&P=101

i modified my Q45 TB to accept the 7M tps - it was a bit of a pain to configure, but I've got it made in the shade now.

Everything is out the window now that I'm off the stock ECU though.

---------- Post added at 12:27 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:21 PM ----------

I believe that the Beech Q45 TB TPS adaptor was designed so that you could use the stock 7M GTE TB TPS with the Q45 TB without having to do any rewiring.

Good luck with your wiring, I trust that you can get it straightened out and working well.

As far as issues with the Q45, I honestly can't remember where I read about the problems--it's been a few years; but it was enough info to sway me not to go with a new Q45-which I had on order-and go with an 80MM TB.

At this point it's all really just a moot point, I just hope you get your car up and running and that everything works out great for you on your build.

-Fred

The problems with the Q45 TB occur due to its size and the actuation ratio of the TB when you remove the linkage and run the bellcrank directly off the butterfly shaft. You generally end up having far too sensitive of a throttle, and the ECU gets angry because it sees far more air per degree of throttle opening than it expects. I minimized these effects by making an eccentric bellcrank and modifying the TPS position slightly (so the ECU would think the throttle is more open than it actually is) while staying in the IDL validation range.

 

[jetjock]

...in the mean time can anyone give me the normal volt range for the Stock TPS? this way I have something to compare and contrast? and could you iterate if its 0-x or x-0 going from no throttle to full throttle.....

VTA should increase and reach appx 3.8 vdc @ WOT. Assuming your set up is mechanically correct wiring the Q45 equivalents of VCC and E2 backwards would result in decreasing voltage with increasing throttle plate angle.

 

[whitemike]

http://www.supramania.com/forums/sh...ng-of-buying-the-Q45-TPS-adapter&daysprune=-1

 

[MA70Snowman]

http://www.supramania.com/forums/sh...ng-of-buying-the-Q45-TPS-adapter&daysprune=-1

Thanks for that link, very informative.

http://www.cygnusx1.net/Supra/Library/TSRM/MK3/manual.aspx?S=FI&P=101

i modified my Q45 TB to accept the 7M tps - it was a bit of a pain to configure, but I've got it made in the shade now.

Everything is out the window now that I'm off the stock ECU though.



The problems with the Q45 TB occur due to its size and the actuation ratio of the TB when you remove the linkage and run the bellcrank directly off the butterfly shaft. You generally end up having far too sensitive of a throttle, and the ECU gets angry because it sees far more air per degree of throttle opening than it expects. I minimized these effects by making an eccentric bellcrank and modifying the TPS position slightly (so the ECU would think the throttle is more open than it actually is) while staying in the IDL validation range.

That makes sense, and Nice solution to the problem. Wondering if this can all be tuned out with the MAFT-pro, It does an have option for "Q45 TB". Would you be interested in duplicating your mod for some financial incentive?

VTA should increase and reach appx 3.8 vdc @ WOT. Assuming your set up is mechanically correct wiring the Q45 equivalents of VCC and E2 backwards would result in decreasing voltage with increasing throttle plate angle.

JJ, thanks for that info. I was thinking something was swapped backwards. but what gets me though is it's only .0 to .8 then jumps to 4.5 (at least according to my MAFTPRO)
won't have time for about two weeks to play around with it. but will post findings once I get a chance.. thanks all.

 

[QWIKSTRIKE]

If the heat stove plunger is still operative the heat will cause the plunger to extend causing the throttle to open. I solved this problem by usinmg a philips screw driver and removing plunger assembly

 

[MA70Snowman]

If the heat stove plunger is still operative the heat will cause the plunger to extend causing the throttle to open. I solved this problem by usinmg a philips screw driver and removing plunger assembly

it's already been removed.