Q & A: MAFT Pro + 7M-GE - POST ALL QUESTIONS, COMMENTS AND PROBLEMS HERE!

[CRE]

Hey everyone,

In response to the assorted PM's I've been receiving and the troubleshooting posts which have confused the writeup thread I'm creating this space for ALL questions, comments and problems.

This will give those of us who are using this hardware and those interested ONE place to look for common problems, solutions and so on.

Updated information concerning MAFT Pro installation and operation will be added to the writeup located HERE.

Please use this as it is intended.

 

[CRE]

Just in case this thread grows large enough I'm reserving a couple spaces for summaries and common questions and answers which for whatever reason do not fit in the writeup thread.

EDIT (06-10-2008):
Compatibility... [strike]As of this point in time the MAFT Pro is the ONLY MAF Translator which supports the 7M-GE. You cannot use the original MAF-T or the MAF-T Gen II. The Gen II does have the capacity for future updates, but I have no information regarding plans to add support for the 7M-GE.[/strike]

EDIT (06-11-2008):
I was informed today that as of the newest software update for the MAFT Gen II that the GEN II now supports the 7M-GE!

So, now let's cover the differences, here's a small list of a few of the things the GEN II does not off that the Pro does:

Speed/Density (MAF only with the GEN II)
Boost control
Enhanced TPS functionality (I'm guessing this isn't part of it, but this is unconfirmed)

 

[CRE]

Reserved.

 

[Ma70.Ent]

Here's a typical question you'll probably asked:

What is the lowest amount of money you need to pay to go MAFT and recieve most of the benefits?

I don't really know anything about the pricing for it/or its many options so I can't really say.

 

[CRE]

I will go back over this for accuracy when I get home this afternoon.... Do not consider this post finished and hold your questions and comments until I do finish it!





Well, assuming that you wanted to just start out by getting something installed with less restriction and that's tunable, but NOT take advantage of AFR tracking features you could go with a MAFT Pro and a LS-1 MAF or a MAFT Pro and SD without a wideband installed on board.

In both cases I would recommend at least borrowing a wide band to install temporarily for two reasons:

1) As noted in the writeup the LS-1 3.5" MAF isn't entirely accurate when installed using couplers to connect it to the 2.75 intake piping. This can cause you to run VERY rich at WOT and other instances where the ECU isn't tracking for 14.7. When I had my 3.5" MAF installed a couple dyno runs revealed my AFRs at WOT to be in the low 11's.... :3d_frown:

2) With a Speed/Density setup you need to see accurately what your fuel is doing when the ECU is in closed loop (such as when you're at WOT). You also need a wideband to accurately adjust for your tip-in... this way you don't go rich as hell when you first step on the throttle or you don't go
rich or lean when letting up making the car buck or lurch.

If you're going with a MAF you could go with a smaller unit that won't require as much or any reduction. This way the ECU is getting an accurate measurement.


So, you would:
1) Build your own harness using the supplied pigtail from the MAFT Pro and connectors for sensors from a junk yard or parts store. Alternatively you can buy a SD harness for the SD setup for very little, but no premade harness is available for the MAF setup at the time of this post.
2) install the MAFT Pro and the MAF (or MAP sensor and IAT sensor)
3) connect a wideband and disconnect the stock O2 sensor
4) tune the system across the board (keep Vf fuel trims in mind here)
5) remove the wideband and reconnect the stock O2 sensor

Prices:

MAFT Pro with 3.5" LS-1 MAF:
MAFT Pro - $399.99
LS-1 3.5" MAF - $109.99
Couplers - Slilcone reducer 2.75" to 3.5", you need 2 - $12.99ea
Intake piping - Civic CAI kit or whatever you like $25+, depending on the kit more couplers may be required.
Air filter - Get a good filter dammit... Up to you though... the intake kit may come with one.

MAFT Pro with 3" LS-1 MAF (Best bet for a simple install):
MAFT Pro - $399.99
GM 3" MAF - $129.99 (This would put you closest to stock, minus restrictions, without tuning. I recommend verifying your AFRs on a dyno at the very least.)
Couplers - Slilcone reducer 2.75" to 3", you need 2 - $12.99ea
Intake piping - Civic CAI kit or whatever you like $25+, depending on the kit more couplers may be required.
Air filter - Get a good filter dammit... Up to you though... the intake kit may come with one.

MAFT Pro running Speed Density:
MAFT Pro - $399.99
GM 3 bar MAP -$74.99
GM IAT - $13.99
Couplers - 0 - See note for intake.http://www.siliconeintakes.com/prod...id=65&osCsid=3e3a44da51f08f823e2cf68e87b3c0a1
Intake piping - Civic CAI kit or whatever you like $25+, depending on the kit more couplers may be required.
Air filter - Get a good filter dammit... Up to you though... the intake kit may come with one.

NOTE: Without an on board wideband you can NOT setup for a lean cruise or WOT AFR tracking!

Without running Speed/Density you can NOT use boost control in a NA-T setup... although if you're looking to use the MAFT Pro with a NA-T you shouldn't be looking at how to do it cheap.

 

[Ma70.Ent]

I just searched on ebay, and found many cheap GM MAFs, haha. 30-50 bucks! They're used, of course.

 

[CRE]

Yup, you beat me to that part.. just verify compatibility.

If you want to go S/D, you can also find 1 bar GM MAP sensors online and at junkyards for about $10 and IAT sensors the yard will usually just give you. Also, because our intake isn't pressurized you can use the cheaper plastic housing press fit IAT sensor instead of the metal threaded unit.

 

[Ma70.Ent]

1) As noted in the writeup the LS-1 3.5" MAF isn't entirely accurate when installed using couplers to connect it to the 2.75 intake piping. This can cause you to run VERY rich at WOT and other instances where the ECU isn't tracking for 14.7. When I had my 3.5" MAF installed a couple dyno runs revealed my AFRs at WOT to be in the low 11's....

Well this AFR problem could be fixed just by having a tune, right? lol. Meaning if the person were to go the small extra mile they could easily have less restriction and a tune that wouldn't run rich by using the MAFT's ability to stick to an AFR, right?

 

[CRE]

Yup, the point is just that if you go with the 3.5" MAF you had better either like running so rich that it seriously bumps your compression (lol) or you'd better have a way to tune it.... be it at a dyno or using a wideband (borrowed or otherwise).

Using a MAF is definitely an easier setup, but it does limit the MAFT Pro as far as capabilities if you're planning on adding a turbo. For the N/A user who's planning on staying N/A for now, I recommend using a MAF setup... you can always switch later (as I did).



EDIT:

I missed this:

Well this AFR problem could be fixed just by having a tune, right? lol. Meaning if the person were to go the small extra mile they could easily have less restriction and a tune that wouldn't run rich by using the MAFT's ability to stick to an AFR, right?

The MAFT Pro cannot track your AFR unless you have a wideband installed... that's not a part of the economy setup I'm detailing here. But, yes you could add a LC-1 to the system and use AFR tracking... although for a DD it's not a requirement as long as your initial tuning is handled well.

 

[AJ'S 88NA]

I have an LS-1 MAF. I give big discounts for members of the NA club Ma70.
Let me know if you want it.

 

[CRE]

I'm going to post this here (I've posted it elsewhere already), it's asked often enough. If these parts are verified to match I'll move this info to the top of the thread.

********************************************************

I found the following connectors on DigiKey... the pitch seems compatible and the structure is the same. However, these may very well not be compatible.


Contacts (sold seperate of the plugs):
Tin 20-24 AWG - WM1837-ND
Gold 20-24 AWG - WM1839-ND

datasheet - http://www.molex.com/pdm_docs/sd/430300001_sd.pdf

Plugs:
10 pin - WM1787-ND
8 pin - WM1786-ND
6 pin - WM1785-ND

datasheet - http://www.molex.com/pdm_docs/sd/430250200_sd.pdf



If anyone feels like verifying these.... (HINT)

 

[cuel]

Which would be easier to tune, for the beginner? MAF, or SD? This would be WITH a wideband, but setting the tune myself.

Also, can you set more than one tune? Say, one for fuel economy, and one for power?

 

[CRE]

Which would be easier to tune, for the beginner? MAF, or SD? This would be WITH a wideband, but setting the tune myself.

MAF is definitely the easiest, although S/D isn't horrible if you have patience.

Also, can you set more than one tune? Say, one for fuel economy, and one for power?

Yes and no... There are a number of ways to go about setting up different modes of running, but it's not just a matter of selecting #1 or #2.

You have the ability of creating different Volumetric Efficiency maps. These are pretty much tables which contain your programmed fuel settings. Then you have the ability of setting up a switch that will activate an Auxiliary mode. This will activate the settings programmed in the following:

AFR Tracking : Aux% - This is will add or deduct the set percentage from your WOT AFR settings across all RPM points.
Spark Aux - This is a second ignition advance control table. When Aux mode is entered this timing table will be activated in place of the regular "Spark WOT" table. This is only if you're using timing control.

There are also two Aux settings for Boost Control.

I could swear I'm forgetting something else though...


At any rate, between the custom VE tables and Aux settings it's not hard to switch back and forth. The only hard part about it is converting your tune to a VE table and entering it all in TunerPro... Fortunately a great guy who goes by "Rogue_Ant" wrote a spread sheet to automate the process! I'll post a link later.

So, you convert your tune to a VE table, upload it as VE 1 and 2 or 3, then switch to which ever you want as the secondary and retune. Now you convert that... It's not too hard, just a lot to type and try to explain quickly. I'll find a link from FullThrottleTech.com which details the process.

 

[CRE]

See HERE for connector and pin info.


DigiKey, last I checked didn't stock the Molex Mini-Fit Jr series connectors which is what you want for these. Mouser Electronics does carry and sell them, individually even! Go to www.mouser.com and search "mini-fit jr". If you just need pins both Mouser and DigiKey sell them. The wires for the MAFT Pro are 18 AWG.

 

[Isphius]

Is the maft compatible with the distributor? I guess so if you can control the timing through it. That would be extremely helpful. Do you really need any less restriction than a 3 inch maf? That is bigger than the TB itself isnt it? And what does the original ecu maintain control of with the maft installed? IAc and egr and all that? Thanks in advance

 

[CRE]

Okay, let's clarify things here... I want to avoid false assumptions because people assume that everyone who reads this knows what they're talking about.

The MAF-T, MAFT Gen II and the MAFT Pro are all DIFFERENT!

The original MAF-T is only available for certain vehicles and ONLY enables you to switch your AFM for a MAF. The 7M-GE is NOT supported.

The MAFT Gen II is essentially a middle ground although I'd place it a little closer to the MAFT Pro given the feature set. The MAFT Gen II will allow you to go with either a speed/density or a GM MAF setup, tune your fuel and track your AFRs. It does NOT have timing control. For a more detailed comparison look through the manuals of both, available at www.maftpro.com

The MAFT Pro is the top of the line. Many are familiar with it's feature set so I'll just lightly recap: Speed/density controller or MAF Translator (GM MAF interface), fuel controller, boost controller, timing advance controller (only for WOT), capable of tracking for preset AFRs (see: lean cruise), Aux input to activate secondary tables for some features...


As for the GM MAF, I discussed this in the beginning of my writeup. For an N/A the onlu improvement you may see between a GM MAF and a s/d setup would be a microscopic increase in throttle response.

Installing a GM MAF is an easier way to go, although it does cost you the ability to use boost control. If you do install a GM MAF I recommend using a 3" GM MAF with 3" pipe running up to the MAF, after that you can use a reducer to connect to the 7M-GE's 2.75" piping. I would not recommend a 3.5" GM MAF unless you have a means of tuning. The details of the how's and why's are in the writeup.

IIRC, the 7M-GE's TB is around 2.5".


All of the MAFT's are piggybacks they work in conjunction with the stock ECU except where AFR tracking comes into play and you disable the ECU's O2 sensor OR in some custom configurations. The MAFT Pro does not have the ability to control the EGR, although it may be possible to use it to control a VSV (but I'm not going to get into that).

Hell, there's even a way to take control of the ACIS from the ECU and give it to the MAF Pro to handle, although the Pro would handle it a bit differently... DON'T ASK, I'm not going to get into the finer details of this. If you want to experiment with this you're on your own.

 

[CRE]

I'm not going to get in the business of mirroring all of the MAFT Pro software updates, but while FullThrottleTech.com appears to be down I will host the latest version:

Version 5.08: http://www.fadingworld.com/Supra/MAFT Pro repacks/TPRO508.zip

 

[benchwarmer]

Don't forget to add moving the jumper to the "on" position to your write-up CRE. I'm not entirely clear on what the prescaler thingy does but I do know the car runs horribly with it on the wrong setting.

As of 1 hour ago I now have MAFT Pro successfully installed and running on my NA. All I can say is woohoo! Let the tuning begin!

 

[CRE]

Don't forget to add moving the jumper to the "on" position to your write-up CRE. I'm not entirely clear on what the prescaler thingy does but I do know the car runs horribly with it on the wrong setting.

As of 1 hour ago I now have MAFT Pro successfully installed and running on my NA. All I can say is woohoo! Let the tuning begin!

To clarify, the Prescale Jumper ONLY needs to be moved from the factory position if you are using a MAF. It is NOT moved if you are S/D.

Congratulations!!! One more to the club. I believe you're only number 3 to actually be running the MAFT Pro... that or it's Cuel, but I don't believe he's up and running yet.

 

[cuel]

Nope (sigh), not yet. You should be hearing from me in a few weeks, though...