problem with arps studs

[87supraturbo19]

:1zhelp: i am trying to do my hg replacement i got the head on there. put the washers on and got ready to put the nuts on and (i have already read about craftsman sockets being too thick) the nuts that i have dont fit down between the valve housing. is there something manufactered wrong here or is there some kind of trick to it. i have searched all threads and cant find anyone else with this problem.

 

[upgradedsupra]

They should fit but may have to wiggle them down or turn the cams.

Duane

 

[billspreston01]

I think there's 1 or 2 spots on each cam where you'll have to spin it to get the nuts on.

 

[aljordan]

I've had to do this twice on 2 different heads.

I take a blue shop towel that I'm sure we all have. Fold it up as much as possible and place 2 of them between the HG and the head. One at the front, and one at the back. Drop the head onto these and it should raise it up engough for you to get the nuts started. You want to snug these nuts up just so you have a few threads showing on the nuts. Then slowly pull out the shop towel. The head will drop onto the HG, and you'll be able to fully tighten the nuts.

 

[Wendigo]

How can that work with senior sticky, the brake quite, on the MHG? won't that screw up the sealing?

 

[87supraturbo19]

I've had to do this twice on 2 different heads.

I take a blue shop towel that I'm sure we all have. Fold it up as much as possible and place 2 of them between the HG and the head. One at the front, and one at the back. Drop the head onto these and it should raise it up engough for you to get the nuts started.

thats what i was going to do but as stated that will screw up the sealant.

 

[Jetfixr757]

I have studs on my engine and the nuts were cool the washers were a little trickey.
Jet.

 

[cjsupra90]

I have had that same problem on a few cars that I have worked on including my own. I think that there was an insignificant casting change at some point that made the outside of the valve bucket housings thicker and therefor no clearance to put the nuts on.

What I cam up with to solve this issue is two peices of 1/8" X 1" X 2" aluminum with some thin cork glued to them. If you position them on top of the dowel pins with the cork side facing the head (to protect the head surface), it hold the head up enough to put the nut on with no problem. once all of the nuts are on, you can hold the head up to take the weight off of the peices have someone pull them out. Works like a charm.

 

[suprahero]

I just ordered the arp studs, and now I read this. All I read when I posted about what to buy, the studs or bolts, everyone chose the studs. Now I read that their a pain in the butt to put on. I may have wished that I ordered the bolts instead. Hopefully they will work alright.

Chris.........Loving your car long time and too boocoo. That is one sweet ride.....

 

[johnathan1]

cjsupra90: what springs do you run? (sorry to talk off topic)

 

[87supraturbo19]

well i got all of the nuts on except the two towards the front of the head. one on each side. even if i turn the cams its just not going to be possible, so i am going to take 2 nuts to work with and turn a little off the flange for clearance. i didnt want to have to do this but i am going to.

 

[NDBoost]

well i got all of the nuts on except the two towards the front of the head. one on each side. even if i turn the cams its just not going to be possible, so i am going to take 2 nuts to work with and turn a little off the flange for clearance. i didnt want to have to do this but i am going to.

your obviously not doing something right bud. you shouldn't have to do that, think of how many supra owners have used these studs and this is the 1st time ive ever heard of this issue..

 

[87supraturbo19]

i promise you the only way to do it is to lift the head up and i cant do that cause my hg already sealed. the nut doesnt clear the valve housing and with the cam turned on the flat side there is absolutly no clearance for socket to go over the nut.

 

[NDBoost]

are you using a thin walled 12 point socket, or just a standard size?

 

[87supraturbo19]

i m telling you it will not make a difference there is only about .050 of clearance between the cam and the actual points the socket goes on. if there was clearance between the flange and valve housing i could screw it on by hand and once it was down there i could use socket.

 

[billspreston01]

there's a way...or you're not running a factory head and/or cams. I went to sears, picked up a deep well 12pt socket...and put all of them on. It's possible. I didn't have to prop the head up to do it either. I just put the washers over the holes before putting the head on.

 

[87supraturbo19]

you guys just dont understand it has nothing to do with the socket. theres something different on the casting. i turned a couple thousands off the nuts and it works fine.thanxs for all info and time guys

 

[suprahero]

Glad you got it done. Hope mine goes on a little easier.

 

[Adjuster]

Ok, this thread is cracking me up. (Seriously.)

Folded towels? Cork spacers? Please people, this is not the way to go.

Here is how it's done.

1) As I've mentioned before, YOU DO NOT PUT THE HEAD STUDS ON THE BLOCK UNTILL AFTER YOU PLACE THE HEAD DOWN ON THE GASKET.

2) If your using brake quiet, this makes for a very easy placement, and a perfect seal every time. (Your goal is not to move the head once it's down on the coated gasket.)

3) Now, using the supplied moly lube, put a small amount on the threads that go into the block. coat both sides of the washer, and place it onto the stud, then place the stud into the head, and let the washer slide right down it into perfect position every time, on every stud location. Gently thread in the studs, so they are all finger tight, and at the same height. (This makes sure they are all engaged in the block the same amount of threads.)

4) Placing some moly lube on the nuts, start them on each stud top, and turn down finger tight.

5) Following the TSRM reccomended pattern, from the middle working out to the ends in a cross 'X' pattern, set your tourqe wrench to 30lbs and make your first pass. Do this right away, it will help to seat the gasket, and do it while the brake quiet is still pliable and tacky.

6) Make multiple passes across the head, following the TSRM 'X' pattern, and adding 20lbs on each pass. (So, 30 first, 50 second, 70 third and ending up with your choice of either 90lbs final, or going one last pass with a value over 100lbs. I ended up at 103lbs just to be different.)

The key to getting a proper amount of clamping force across the head is to be consistant on the wrench, and to stop when it clicks. Also make sure your moving the wrench smoothly at least a 1/4 turn before you get the click. Just going click-click with no movement is not doing it. Your just reading the friction on the nut/stud/washer surfaces. Your reading should be when the nut is moving to get the most accurate and effective clamping force across the head.

I've heard of people going to 125lbs, and those that swear that 85lbs is plenty. I've re-used mine now on 4 engines, at a value just over 100lbs each time and had zero problems, and I expect to have none. I've used moly lube each time to make sure the readings are as equal across the studs as possible. (Friction does make a difference.)

Good luck.

 

[IJ.]

To add : Make sure the bolt holes in the block have been chased so the threads aren't full of 20 years worth of crud!