Please help choose a MHG!!

[bigaaron]

I have had good luck with a hks 2.0 mhg with permatex copper spray and arp studs. 20psi on a 50 trim ct26 was 369whp and 395tq. The finish on the head and block is just as or more important then the brand of hg you choose. The cometic has grown im popularity because of the rumors that it will work on any engine without surfacing, and that is not true. Any time you change a headgasket without a surface job you are asking for trouble.

 

[Idealsupra]

I have had good luck with a hks 2.0 mhg with permatex copper spray and arp studs. 20psi on a 50 trim ct26 was 369whp and 395tq. The finish on the head and block is just as or more important then the brand of hg you choose. The cometic has grown im popularity because of the rumors that it will work on any engine without surfacing, and that is not true. Any time you change a headgasket without a surface job you are asking for trouble.

well theres some subjective comments here...

1) copper spray in a mhg job...NEVER a good idea...NOR is it needed...you run the risk of clogging up water jackets and have a BHG due to it...i would NEVER use it.

2) the cometic DOES have a lot more of a forgiving nature to surfaces then the hks...PERIOD.you DONT need to resurface the BLOCK with the cometic whereas with the HKS you really DO..or youre just pressing your luck with a proper sealing surface. HOWEVER the head should ALWAYS be resufaced and obvioulsy if the block is warped thats a whole other story.

that is all...

 

[bigaaron]

1: not true
2: misinformation

So you are saying that used and unsurfaced head and or block is always flat and does not need a surface? If you answer yes then you have no idea what you are talking about. The copper spray clogging up the water jacket is rediculous. The sealing material on the hks mhg is very thin, even with a nice surface the copper is just added protection. Show me some pics of supposedly copper clogged water jackets.

 

[shaeff]

1: not true
2: misinformation

So you are saying that used and unsurfaced head and or block is always flat and does not need a surface? If you answer yes then you have no idea what you are talking about. The copper spray clogging up the water jacket is rediculous. The sealing material on the hks mhg is very thin, even with a nice surface the copper is just added protection. Show me some pics of supposedly copper clogged water jackets.

reread Ideal's post...

-shaeff

 

[bigaaron]

I did read his post again and i am not trying to be confrontational but everything i recommend is always backed up with research, years of personal experience and common sense. To say that "surfacing the block is not needed" is a general statment that gives people the wrong idea. It really means "i don't want to spend the time or money to do the job right". Any motor that has had a bhg should be torn down to check the bearings for damage from any coolant that may have mixed with the oil. Why not surface it while you are at it. The block does not have to be warped to have surface irregularities that could cause problems. The copper clogging thing is baseless. We are talking about mabye 2 square inches of the copper coated hg actually subjected to coolant passages and the water jackets hold a large volume of coolant. Is he spraying it on 1/2" thick?

 

[Idealsupra]

1: not true
2: misinformation

So you are saying that used and unsurfaced head and or block is always flat and does not need a surface? If you answer yes then you have no idea what you are talking about. The copper spray clogging up the water jacket is rediculous. The sealing material on the hks mhg is very thin, even with a nice surface the copper is just added protection. Show me some pics of supposedly copper clogged water jackets.

wow...first off reading is fundamental...

second off... i think YOU are the one that is misinformed...

1) IF the block is not warped (READ: checked with machinists straightedge and is fine) then for a COMETIC gasket it is NOT needed for it to be resurfaced...a simple cleaning with a razor blade and brake cleaner to get it smooth will do the job..this is obviously also assuming there are no pits or cracks..... IF you are using a HKS MHG...for a PROPER seal you NEED to deck the block for the mirror finish needed for the right seal with a hks. PERIOD. If you dont...you run the risk of having the hks not seal properly and another bhg ensues. THE HEAD SHOULD ALWAYS BE RESURFACED REGARDLESS OF GASKET USED.

2) as for the copper spray in the water jackets...i can think of 4 people off the top of my head that have had this problem...INCLUDING MYSELF...i used copper spray with a hks mhg and soon after doing so read about the water jacket and coolant passages clogging problem..i crossed my fingers but was to no avail as about a month later my MHG blew.... i WISH i took pics of everything...unfortunetly i did not. YOU RUN THE RISK OF THIS HAPPENING IF YOU USE COPPER SPRAY...PERIOD. not to mention the fact that the HKS AND the cometic BOTH have a sealing material already on the gasket which is why copper spray is NOT needed whatsoever.

EDIT: after reading your last post i think youre crazy lol...there is NO need to tear down an entire engine because of a bhg.... it would be a 1 in a billion chance anything bottom end is messed up due to coolant mixing with the oil....

to each his own i guess...

have a nice night.

 

[empera]

hehe did i mension ideal is the man?
anyways...ordered a cometic hg, should be on its way. i'll let everyone know how it goes after i put the crap back together.

thx guys for input.

 

[YoNkErS87t]

Amen Ideal..........

 

[rakkasan]

2) as for the copper spray in the water jackets...i can think of 4 people off the top of my head that have had this problem...INCLUDING MYSELF...i used copper spray with a hks mhg and soon after doing so read about the water jacket and coolant passages clogging problem..i crossed my fingers but was to no avail as about a month later my MHG blew.... i WISH i took pics of everything...unfortunetly i did not. YOU RUN THE RISK OF THIS HAPPENING IF YOU USE COPPER SPRAY...PERIOD. not to mention the fact that the HKS AND the cometic BOTH have a sealing material already on the gasket which is why copper spray is NOT needed whatsoever.

to each his own i guess...

have a nice night.

Alright Ideal, I have a HKS MHG sprayed with CGS. I' ve looked in my radiator & it looks completely clean. In theory, the radiator is the coolest part of the coolant system, therefore the copper from the spray should solidify in it first, clogging the core.

What kind of problems did you have?

 

[empera]

YOU RUN THE RISK OF THIS HAPPENING IF YOU USE COPPER SPRAY...PERIOD


it doesnt neccessarily mean that it Will happen. Might happen sooner or later, or might not have the problem at all, but again you take a RISK.

thats wat i get out of wat ideal said.

 

[rakkasan]

YOU RUN THE RISK OF THIS HAPPENING IF YOU USE COPPER SPRAY...PERIOD


it doesnt neccessarily mean that it Will happen. Might happen sooner or later, or might not have the problem at all, but again you take a RISK.

thats wat i get out of wat ideal said.

I understand exactly what he is saying. My question is what kind of problems did he have....what happened to cause the BHG?

 

[Idealsupra]

I understand exactly what he is saying. My question is what kind of problems did he have....what happened to cause the BHG?

basically exactly what you said mark...it will pick and choose to solidify in areas of the cooling system and clog them up... a friend had chunks of it in his water jackets in the block.... i personally didnt investigate where it happened with me as i was too ipssed so i just fixed it and let it go....

ther ewas a big thread on SF about it as well...ill see if i can dig it up...

 

[empera]

So i got my Cometic MHG in today...(thx 935 motorsports) and it has rivets holding the layers together...which one is the one that causes sealing problems?

 

[shaeff]

you'll see when you rest it on the block. post pics when you do!

-shaeff

 

[Bishop92t]

I'd just like to add my own years of experience to this dead thread in regards to the copper coat. I've seen a guy reuse his MHG with copper spray 3 times, put 30,000+ miles on the car, and never had the block or head cleaned. You can't find any evidence of any copper spray anywhere in his cooling system. Honestly I don't see how you guys are clogging up cooling passages with copper spray, it's not like a lot of spray is required to coat the HG. One heavy coat on both sides of the HG and it's ready. I myself have used it a couple times with no ill effects either. We're not talking about a huge surface area of exposed HG to the cooling passages, how exactly is a large amount of copper spray material getting into your cooling passages? Does anyone have pics of a copper clogged engine?

 

[IJ.]

Just to add to Bishop's post I've used copper spray many times over the years without a problem.

I guess if you use a full can on one gasket it might squeeze out into the water jacket.....

I went for a 3mm Cometic this time.

 

[Bishop92t]

I've been reading up on the Cometic and it seems people are split as to its performance. How is yours holding up IJ?

 

[IJ.]

Haven't received it yet Bishop I'm using a TMS 2mm in my current moter the Cometic is for the new one!

 

[lagged]

maybe the people clogging their coolant passages are spraying the CS directly on the block/head??

ill probably be getting a cometic HG, just had the motor rebuilt and the HG blew......